ShowShifter VS. Personal Video Station 3

[BigRedBrent]

I have updated this post (after reading mrphil's post right below this one) to make it more understandable.


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I love that ShowShifter will record in any AVI format, (this is a must)


(It would be perfect if it would be able to record using a loss less avi codec such as Huffyuv
and also be able to re encode itself using DivX "2-pass" video with MP3 audio with any spare CPU power, with the option to automatically delete the source file to save space)

support for DivX 2-pass would require at least the ability to have a recording to be automatically re encoded with more than one process and have it use a single output file name.
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For 2-pass encoding the two processes should be joined together and listed as one in the Que. list, so the second process will not be able to start unless the first process has completed immediately before it. (Just like the processes are handled in the program Dr. DivX.)
A single re encoding profile should be able to contain settings for more than one AVI video encoding process (2-pass).
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I would also like to note for a 2-pass encode, that only the second process would need to use the audio stream from the source file, so it should disable audio output for the first process, so audio is not sent to the output file of the first process for 2-pass encoding
(this may speed things up a little on the first process of a 2-pass encode)
I believe the way the program Dr. DivX handles the output file for the first process of a 2-pass encode is the best way to go, but not sure of the exact way Dr. DivX does it so you may want to look into it.
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DivX 2-pass encoding rocks, you definitely need to have support for this. With support such as this you could even use the codec XviD with 2-pass ability and maybe other codecs that may support 2-pass.


it would be nice if all re encode processes had the ability to be paused when actively encoding.
It should be able to automatically pause any actively encoding processes before shutting down the program and have the option to automatically restart paused processes when the program starts.
(so it would be possible to shut the program or the computer down and have it resume exactly where it left off when the program starts again)
[not sure if this can be done but it would be nice]
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ability for processes to be stopped to defer encoding so it may be skipped in the que. list
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the ability for processes to be reset to active (if it has been stopped, paused, or failed) so it can encode in the que. list.
(if it failed it may give you the ability to correct the problem and try again)
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ability for processes to be edited to change and save encoding preferences when not actively encoding or paused
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I also would like the option to change the processes que. list order, so I can move processes up or down in priority.
So I can change if a process begins before or after other processes (after the one that is actively encoding or paused has completed).


I would like the ability to easily backup and share encoding profiles with settings files.


I like that ShowShifter has the ability to show CPU usage when recording
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It should also have the live recording process to be able to use a higher priority setting (Real-time) and the re encoding process to use the lowest possible priority setting (Idle) or what ever would be the best settings.
I am sure the re encoding process set to use the lowest possible priority setting (Idle) would be the best.



If this program has everything that I like in ShowShifter and more then there would be no reason to stay with ShowShifter, and many other people will agree











I sent this to ShowShifter, it's about things they need to add to there program to make it much better and would apply to any DVR program without these features



Needed Improvements:


ability to pause a recording and then start recording adding to the same file set (for instance if you want to manually pause recording during commercials and restart recording when they end)


a pop up control panel when in full picture mode (so you don't have to make the picture smaller to get to more advanced viewing controls when in full picture mode)


Auto continuous multi part file playback for files that are split up because of size.
The ability to change viewing mode in the file viewer to only show the first file of a recorded sequence and play it as if it was not separate from all the sequential files (exactly as if it was just one big file, so there is no short pause or gap between files when playing).
Also when re encoding it needs to treat all the files in the recorded sequence as if they where one file as well so the output is just one file.


a graphical slider used to move to any part of the video that you want to view, in addition to the fast forward button (so you can jump to a specific time in the video, like you can in windows media player) - also with multi part files you should be able to slide the bar from the beginning to the end of all the sequential combined video of the files in a single move when using the file viewing mode I listed above (as I said above it would be able to treat the sequential files exactly as it would a single file, for large split up files).


auto commercial skip - the ability to pause recording during all commercials automatically for you and continue recording where the file left off after the commercial is over


mpeg-1 and mpeg-2 recording and encoding




I like to have the freedom to completely customize the way the program works and the more options that give me the choice the better


If I have left anything out that could be helpful, I apologize

[mrphil]

Im not being insulting here, but theres an awful lot of rambling your post, and in some cases of features your asking for im not sure if its because of past experience, or a lack of resoning for what you are asking for. However, I will attempt to decipher some of your "requests"

Standby/scheduled tasks: PVS3.0 will wake up the PC if its on standby, and return to standby after recording has completed. As for "<not wanting> any program be running all the time for pre scheduled recordings to work", I assume you think this based on the workings of Showshifter, which opens up its interface and gives no option to sit quietly using fewer resources. PVS3.0 sits in the task bar, there no need for you to close it down, it simply isn't nessesary.

I like how when it auto starts itself for pre scheduled recording it has the volume muted and other stuff

Oh, they fixed that at last did they? Last time i tried showshifter, I could not listen the mp3's or watch movies whilst it was recording because of the appaling way it controlled the mixer. PVS3.0 sits silently in the background, and does not impair the ability to listen to music etc.

and after it is done recording and if there isn't another recording scheduled within the next say 3 or 5 minutes it will close the program automatically after prompting you with a pop up window asking you if you want it to close since it has finished recording

Like I said, no need, since PVS3.0 wouldnt have "popped up" anyway. If you happened to be at the machine, the only clue about a recording would be the taskbar icon going red.

I usually keep my workstation locked

Its supported in PVS3.0. Next!

I also like the ability to set pre record and post record overrun minutes for all recordings

Also supported.

As an Ex-ShowShifter user, i can only say that ShowShifter is left many years behind in comparison with PVS 3.0. Plus, the big thing on the ShowShifter boards that all its users want, an EPG, is not in sight in the near to middle future, yet PVS3.0 has a fully intergrated EPG which is part of the program, not some clunky bolt-on extra where you have to try and use a web browser from your TV.

Lets not forget the fact that PVS 3.0 natively supports streaming to anywhere in the world, has proper rewind and fast forward functions, unlike showshifter. And the program looks professional too.

When PVS 2.0 was out, I said ShowShifter was best and used that.
PVS 3.0 now blows Showshifter out of the water.

[BigRedBrent]

Originally posted by mrphil
Im not being insulting here, but theres an awful lot of rambling your post, and in some cases of features your asking for im not sure if its because of past experience, or a lack of resoning for what you are asking for. However, I will attempt to decipher some of your "requests"

I totally understand. I was very tired when I posted this. I find I do a lot of thinking when I am tired.

Any way I didn't make myself clear on a lot of things.
I was not a beta tester and have never actually used this program. I was just hoping that this program would have the control that I am looking for.

For one I have given up on ShowShifter. I was only saying what I liked about it. I only want the option for all of this stuff.
OK lets all say it together. "OPTIONS". Hmm what does that tell you. See the way I see options is the ability to have things do what you want.

The way Personal Video Station 3 does things may be very good but more options never hurt anyone. All you need to have is a set things back to default option for the brain dea... I mean people who don't understand as well as others.

Anyway I still like the ability to have no programs running and it still works when you want it to and don't when you don't want it to.

I can see the benefits for a program to be running all the time and if I had a dedicated computer I may even like to use it that way but I would like the option to have it run in different ways as well.

One mistake I see a lot from programs is they think too single minded. Why can't you have your cake and eat it too. Things don't always have to work just one way. All I am saying is just give more options.

The nice thing about this is you can do everything and then everyone is happy. I mean who wouldn't be happy. Even people who don't know what anything does would be fine with it as long as it had an easy way to set all the advanced setting back to default.

Anyway I also understand the many reasons for not doing anything. Ask ShowShifter, I am sure they could give you a ton of reasons.
(Laziness, uninterested in being the best you can be, don't care too much if someone takes all your business by making something much better than you, and other such things would be my guess)


Oh and one more thing, I seem to talk too much when I am interested in something. So sorry if I tend to ramble on.

[BigRedBrent]

Oh and just to let you know, I do not take offense to any constructive criticism. So anyone who has something to say please say it. I look forward to any comment.

[BigRedBrent]

I did edit the post and removed most of the unimportant things and added a few. I left most of the stuff that I would never give up.

[BigRedBrent]

Originally posted by merrypig


Because all these options require resources, and then support. The more flexible you make it, the more people you need to support the users who can't get x to work.

All good points, but please you gotta be kidding me, NO FRIGGIN AVI support. Now that is something that will not work for me. Windows Media sucks and I would much rather encode with divx for best compression and quality. Anyway supporting a programs advanced setting don't look that hard to me other than fixing bugs I guess. As far as I can tell that is what this Forum is for. The company can't teach everyone how to do everything but at least give more options so they have the ability.

Oh and what kind of resources are you talking about? My computer resources (only being a question of what settings are used) or SnapStreams resources to add the functions. I could maybe understand SnapStreams resources to add the functions.

Anyway I am sorry but I will refuse to look past the lack of AVI support. Even ShowShifter could improve there AVI support, but at least they offer it.

At this point I would prefer to leave ShowShifter if I can find another program with good AVI support.

Well just to coin a phrase "If you build it they will come".

[imf4]

BigRedBrent, You are a annoying me. The developers know that some people want divx support so there is no reason to spam other peoples posts linking to this one.

[jkoon]

Yea really, that’s not cool at all. People will read your post (including certain people who work at SnapStream, they read all the posts).

[BigRedBrent]

Originally posted by jkoon
Yea really, that’s not cool at all. People will read your post (including certain people who work at SnapStream, they read all the posts).

I hope they will. I think I have some good ideas. I am not trying to spam. I guess I just want more input on this stuff from more people.

[CO_Coding_Cub]

Okey, time to throw in my comments here.

SS HAS worked with DivX a bit during the beta testing (early on), and truthfully it's probably best they dropped support for it early on. All in all, I really think that MPEG2 is the only way to go for PVR functionality. It's quick, good quality, and heck, you can get hardware encoders that do all the work. I'm not saying this because I'm an MPEG2 supporter, I'm saying this from experience.

I agree that DivX is a wonderful conmpression format, and most of my "archived" videos end up in it, but from a PVR standpoint, it ain't the greatest. AVI is a rather icky file format in all truth, so many audio sync issues. WMV isn't really that bad, if you throw enough bandwidth at it. WMV is a MPEG4 derivitive also, try encoding something in DivX at 500kbps and tell me it's not as bad as WMV at the same bitrate. I came into the beta-test hating WMV as much as you do.

If you're only aiming to record a few shows, do MPEG2 and then compress em down to DivX with another program. You can edit out the ads really easily at the same time. If you're looking to record lots of stuf with the intent of watching them, not saving them, then just record at a "watchable" quality. There's a reason VCRs and TiVo have a range of recording qualities.

I've never use Showshifter so I can't say much about their product, but with regard to SS, it's really best if you use/treat the program one of two ways. !) TiVo replacement, build a dedicated box, lots off HDD space, a hardware encoder, and plug it in next to you TV. or 2) use this as a source for high-quality MPEG2 recordings of your favorite show to recompress into DivX, editing in the process, and eventually archiving. All I can say for myself is to be flexable, don't rely on one program to do everything you'd ever want, and you only get out high quality if you take the time to do things right and invest a bit of money.

SS is a wonderful product, but it will never do everything everyone wants, so be generous and get what you can out of it.

[CO_Coding_Cub]

Also one las tlittle comment. I understand that you're looking for software to do something specific... but truth be told, you havn't earned the right to criticize what you think is missing in this software until you've invested a little time and effort in using the product (yes I know there's no trial available yet). I came into the beta wanting SS to perform a specific way, but came out a totally changed user. It's kindof like TiVo owners saying "it's totally changed the way I watch TV"...

"Snapstream has totally changed the way I use a PVR"

Trust me, be open and flexable and you will find many things you like about this program.

[BigRedBrent]

Originally posted by CO_Coding_Cub
Also one las tlittle comment. I understand that you're looking for software to do something specific............ truth be told, you havn't earned the right to criticize what you think is missing in this software until you've invested a little time and effort in using the product

I am not looking for software just to do something specific. Trust me there would be many variations of things to what this kind of support would enable me and others like me to do. It would give me the freedom to do things that I normally couldn't or wouldn't do. I am perfectly capable of doing every little thing manually. But if I have to set every re encode manually I probably wouldn't do it and this would just waste space on my hard drives.

It would just save a hole lot of time to have it automatically do what I would manually have it do anyway. Now I can also cut parts out of a DivX file even after it has been encoded without having to re encode it again and with a 300MB-700MB file that wouldn't take much time at all.

I am not here to criticize the product. From what I can tell it is doing much more than ShowShifter and other than no support for AVI files I think it is a good program. And if they ever added support for AVI files. Not DivX specific. Just options to make encoding profiles that can use AVI codecs. Maybe even set it up to allow 2-pass encoding as I have described above, again not DivX specific as it would work just as good for XviD. Just add this ability. It would give this company much more respect to be able to do such a thing. Everyone would probably abandon what ever DVR software they are using and get this if you add this stuff. I am not sure but I think that would be a win win situation. Everyone would get what they want. Heck you don't even have to add pre made profiles for AVI encoding. Just let it be possible. People who don't know how to use it don't have to. But people who do will thank you a hole lot.

[CO_Coding_Cub]

Just a side note, that's one thing I dislike about AVIs (more sprecifically how people handle the files...)

AVI was never desigend to be an editable file format. Cutting out ads in an AVI is often one of the reasons AVI get broken. The only "proper" way to do it is to cut on a keyframe and re-index the whole file. "Streaming" formats like MPEG-2 and WMV (and yes, DivX in it's native format) are better suited for cropping, since the file formats are designed to handle missing frames when streaming.

[CO_Coding_Cub]

howso merrypig, methinks that FF/REW works fine....granted I prefer skip forward/back over changing the playback speed VCR style, it just seems more appropriate for digital content

[CO_Coding_Cub]

I remember reading that in another of your posts merrypig Anywho, I still stick to my argument that increasing playback speed is an analog technique and skipping is much more intrinsic to digital formats.... But then again, I'm an anti-old-fassioned person who doesn't really want reminders of the days of VCR's. I've gone to the extreme of renaming the WMV encoding levels to kbps values instead of "Near VHS".... mainly beacuse those numbers have more meaning to me than names do....