Digital transition in 2009: what does it mean for regular analog cable?

[rakeshagrawal]

Originally Posted by EEinOK

2. I seem to be confused about the digital transition in 2009. I understand that OTA transmission will be in HD (I also understand why) but will the cable companies keep analog for the foreseeable future (i.e. 5 or 10 years down the road)? If so, I suppose I can live with analog as the cheaper option while recording any HD programming through ClearQAM unless other options become available.

This is a good question and one that comes up a lot. The only thing that is specifically affected by the FCC-mandated transition to digital (that's mandated to be complete by February 2009) is the over-the-air transmission of television. This means that the only thing that's going to go away per the FCC mandate in February 2009 is over-the-air analog television -- the stuff that's transmitted on the 700 MHz piece of the spectrum.

And so while this doesn't officially affect cable TV, I've heard differing ideas on what will actually happen when this switch happens for over-the-air television.

On the one hand, I had a friend who has worked in broadcast television for the past 10 years or so tell me that he had heard talk that cable companies will also switch to digital-only. Apart from the one-time cost of the new equipment required to do this, it's better for the cable companies because they can fit more channels into less bandwidth. In this scenario, maybe the cable companies transmit more of their stuff as unencrypted QAM -- who knows?

On the other hand, I tend to agree with Robert Cringley's prediction that it'll be pretty hard for any cable company to get rid of regular, analog cable:

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2...21_003697.html

We'll be dead and buried before analog video service is retired, so that 420 MHz is unlikely to be recovered.

And if you're thinking the FCC decision about going all digital on February 17, 2009 is going to change this, think again. In fact, it will probably increase analog cable subscription numbers since the MSOs will have to take the digital-only signals coming from local broadcasters and convert them back to analog signals so customers can receive them. The FCC order doesn't affect cable or satellite companies.

The reason I agree with this is change is difficult and I just don't see the cable companies being able to make the change without suffering a lot of backlash from their customers.

[Tim sawyers]

Personally I think you are wrong. The number of channels being carried as analog is decreasing already to make room for more HD. Comcast in MI is moving more and more to the digital tier including things like PEG channels. Another thing I have noticed is that most of the channels in MI that have moved to digital have been encrypted.


I think it will prove more profitable for them to cut basic cable down to the minimum and engorge all users to go at least digital basic and then some time after change over give all the hold outs a choice of upgrade or get only the locale channels with a converter box at the same cost as basic cable cost now.

Questions I have about change over:

When will we see converter boxes? Will they be QAM ready? Cable card ready?
Will that box be able to tune in at least Digital basic channels? Keep some channels none encrypted?
What is the best plan for the third seldom watched non cable boxed TV in the house?
Well my PC tuners be worth trying to sell? Answer to this is no!

The last question underscores why snapstreem has been focused on alternative revenue streams for the last two years. What kind of enterprise needs to record large amounts of TV?

[Voxelflinger]

it would smart on the cable/satellite companies to reach out to those OTA users who could be new customers with current analog cable or dish services.

The people most likely to fight the change are the elderly who don't want to or can't pay extra to convert. A lot of low income people have cable and large televisions so they might complain but they will convert.

What the FCC should have done was cut-off analog OTA when they were first scheduled to. Everyone knew it was coming and the production of SD televisions could have scaled back.

We have faced changes before. The RCA color broadcast incident, the death of reel to reel, 4 and 8-track, records, Betamax, and cassettes. Now dying off are miniDV tape, 8mm Hi8, VHS, SVHS, floppy disks of all sizes, ( dead: 8mm film, Super8 film) , 16mm film, 35mm photographic film and compact discs will soon follow.

There are changes in every generation. For years we have suffered with poor quality video. Get over it.

Remember the late 50's and most of the 60's? You bought a $500.00 or more 25 in diagonal console television without a remote control with a black and white video display, the tuner had channels 2-13 and of those may 3 to 4 channels were broadcasting from 6 am to midnight.

Then by the late 60's color television came out with remote and you paid $600.00 with still only 3 to 4 channels and now maybe 2 UHF channels.

By the 70's you kept your color televison but now paid cable to give you 12 channels and one HBO channel.

The 80's gave you the cable box with extended channels or you bought a new television with the tuner built-in. What did you do? Bought the new televison for $800.00, rented the cable box, put the new television on channel 3 and used the cable box. Later you upgraded to the cable box with a remote. Then it got screwed up when you added the VCR!

The 90's gave you more stuff, home video, DVD, VCR, pay per view, superstations and you are still on channel 3.

Now we have HD, BTV, LCD/Plasma televisions, computers that play video, hundereds of channels, basic, extended. premium, digital, pay per view, on demand, DVR, subscription, A network for every niche, fetish, sport, lifestyle and culture.

Now sombody is going to bitch about a $40 dollar coupon for a converter box? For what to watch only 3 or 4 channels on a regular basis they get over the air for free?

[Mistergq]

originally I was with you Rak. this conversation is really a crystal ball conversation and I think its going to come down to company by company decision.

today, my gut feeling is that Comcast and other cable companies believe they can make more money with digital boxes, so they will continue to remove analog channels to digital tier.

[Darkk]

Just for giggles I bought a 4 way cable distribution amp and connected my HDTV with built-in QAM support I noticed there are ALOT of unencrypted digital stations on Comcast Cable in Livermore area California and was like damn this is cool. I have the 1600 card with QAM support but currently BTV doesn't support it. I know there is a hardware workaround solution such as HDHomeRun but with the announcement for 2008 with a possibility of native QAM support in BTV which makes me want to hold off and see what happens. Or go ahead and spend the extra money on HDHomeRun because it's something that is already available now. Still, I question the extra money I'd have to spend to get it when I may not have to.

Change is good but not without some sacrifices. I'm in favor of all digital CATV but without cable card support for our homebrew PVR boxes it's very limited to what you can watch. Granted the solution would be to rent a digital converter from the cable company but you know how much of a hassle trying to get it to work right. My current setup I have two 1600 cards connected directly to cable and it simply works. A side note, however, I have noticed the newest HDTV PVR boxes from Comcast does have a cable card in the back. So if it's being used why can't they let us use it for our stuff?? Only thing I can think of is piracy. That's always been an issue with every cable and satellite provider otherwise they would have provided us with satellite tuner cards for the PC and etc.

[Mistergq]

Darkk, this is where R5000 solution comes into play. I've been doing PVR since late May/early June 2003. This has moved a long way from hobby at this point. I talked to my wife about it and she agrees. We will be making that move later this year once we purchase a house.

[cat6man]

my personal opinion is that analog will disappear on cable......the economics are too great to resist as one analog channel recovered can support 12 digital channels or 2 HD channels (with today's codecs).

there is a solution being tested that enables this, though i don't remember the name of the company that designed the chipset....basically, all analog channels will be eliminated in the distribution network.....a box at the house will, if desired, convert the digital channels back to analog for distribution within the house for households that require analog......but freeing up 40-60 analog channels opens up either 480-720 new digital channels (!) or 80-120 HD channels (!), or something in between..........the latter is required to meet the challenge of fios

anyway, my 2 cents...........your mileage may vary

[TimmyToo]

Originally Posted by Voxelflinger

The people most likely to fight the change are the elderly who don't want to or can't pay extra to convert. A lot of low income people have cable and large televisions so they might complain but they will convert.

You cannot dismiss this group of people as there are many of them. Think about what is mentioned when you see reports about Social Security... The Baby Boomer generation is a large percentage of our population and will be over the next 20+ years. Those are the people that will force the cable companies to keep analog cable for the foreseeable future.

Some only care about watching the local news and Wheel of Fortune. This is the reason I think cable will remain analog for quite a while. Some people don't like change, don't want the cost, don't want something "complicated".

Originally Posted by Voxelflinger

There are changes in every generation. For years we have suffered with poor quality video. Get over it.

Some people don't have a problem with a poor picture. I've seen snowy picture, bad colors, etc on many sets and the person watching isn't concerned. Some people even like to watch SD 4:3 video stretched out to 16:9 on their new "HDTV" sets.

Originally Posted by Voxelflinger

Remember the late 50's and most of the 60's? You bought a $500.00 or more 25 in diagonal console television without a remote control with a black and white video display, the tuner had channels 2-13 and of those may 3 to 4 channels were broadcasting from 6 am to midnight.

And many of those TV's are still working and people use them. In fact, as you know, every single TV in this country that was manufactured the last 50+ years can still work with our existing analog broadcasting standards. This switch to digital broadcasting is going to be a pain for some people. I've already seen quite a bit of confusion and inaccurate info online as some people thing DTV is HDTV, that is not correct.

Originally Posted by Voxelflinger

Then by the late 60's color television came out with remote and you paid $600.00 with still only 3 to 4 channels and now maybe 2 UHF channels.

And black and white sets and sets with no remotes still worked.

Originally Posted by Voxelflinger

By the 70's you kept your color televison but now paid cable to give you 12 channels and one HBO channel.

Some people did/do see the need for cable. Still many don't want or need it. For them OTA analog works. Some even have antenna towers with rotors that still work.

Originally Posted by Voxelflinger

Now sombody is going to bitch about a $40 dollar coupon for a converter box? For what to watch only 3 or 4 channels on a regular basis they get over the air for free?

I think some people will get their converter box, hook it up, and will use that. Some will keep their analog cable hooked up to their existing set and that is the reason I think most cable companies will be keeping their analog tier. Even if the cable co didn't charge $5/month for a cable box rental, say for free, some people don't want a box. They like their old "clicker".

Me... I'm ready for DTV.

[chillspace]

I will tend to agree with the idea that analog broadcasts over cable will remain available for the foreseeable future. I'm in Canada and the switch over to digital isn't quite on the horizon yet (unless I missed something somewhere). Even with the drop in prices for HDTVs, the majority of people will still have regular tv sets in their living rooms. Not mention that many homes have more than one television. The average household can't afford to have 2-3 or more HDTV sets in their homes (especially when the economic outlook for the USA is looking a bit grim at the moment). 2009 will be here before you know it. Those of us keeping up with the broadcasting standards and such will be ready (hopefully) but I doubt many people outside of forums like this are really in the know.

Eric

[richt]

This is still up in the air. Comcast is testing the waters.
http://www.mlive.com/news/annarborne...920.xml&coll=2

[Tim sawyers]

Originally Posted by TimmyToo

I think some people will get their converter box, hook it up, and will use that. Some will keep their analog cable hooked up to their existing set and that is the reason I think most cable companies will be keeping their analog tier. Even if the cable co didn't charge $5/month for a cable box rental, say for free, some people don't want a box. They like their old "clicker".

Me... I'm ready for DTV.

The government has set the bar at adding a converter box is an OK fix for supporting older TV’s. Why would the money hungry cable companies want to provide service to customers not willing to spend money on TV without adding$ at least a converter box?

[Fonceur]

Originally Posted by Tim sawyers

Why would the money hungry cable companies want to provide service to customers not willing to spend money on TV without adding$ at least a converter box?

Because without analog cable, people might prefer to make the jump directly to DirectTV or DishNetwork instead...

[Tim sawyers]

Originally Posted by Fonceur

Because without analog cable, people might prefer to make the jump directly to DirectTV or DishNetwork instead...

These are the people that want there old TV Clicker or can’t afford Cable TV and there going to buy a satellite Dish! Cable companies would like that let dish network have to figure out how give the high end users 200 HD channels and stile give low end users channels without a converter box.

I think you will have to have a digital tuner to receive TV in the short term future. Hopefully the over the air box we buy will be able to do cable as well.

[EEinOK]

What really gripes me about this is the lack of standardization in the cable industry. It seems that some cable providers are encrypting most, if not all, channels that aren't already OTA. However, some are not encrypting all non-OTA channels.

I am extremely bummed about the changes that have occurred only because of encryption and how Microsoft and CableLabs are controlling it. This locks me into a "closed box" that I can't customize (or customize easily) if I want a PVR. Hopefully there will be options for us DIY PVR folks. I suppose that the mainstream public doesn't care about DIY PVRs and will be satisfied with Tivo Series 3/PVR from cable company.

[Tim sawyers]

Originally Posted by EEinOK

What really gripes me about this is the lack of standardization in the cable industry. It seems that some cable providers are encrypting most, if not all, channels that aren't already OTA. However, some are not encrypting all non-OTA channels.

It’s worse then that there seems to be no standard even within the same company. Comcast in MI encrypts some but not all channels but in GA it’s all encrypted.

In the future it would be nice if it where mandated that digital basic hade to be unencrypted so any one with a ATSC tuner could tune in much the way basic cable is now. I would also like to see a mandate for a non DRMed digital output so use PC PVR people could stay in the game.