Snapstream Macintosh Discussions

[mrlumpy]

Macintosh purchasers are known, at least in my biz, as Brand Aspirationals. These people are not the early adopter types, they don't own the newest tech. They typically have older DVD players and what have you that were bought for Christmas gifts, etc. They don't truly "love" computers/electronics, and many don't know how PCs work fundamentally. They do spend a LOT of money though, so they are very very coveted. But the computer market != macintosh/brand aspirational market. So, here is some free advice Snapstream: I absolutely guarantee you will waste every single dollar you spend if you start up a Mac version of BTV. You won't recover a dime, simply because your company name is not Apple. That's the paradox of brand aspirationals - if Apple didn't exist, 90% of their users would simply not own a computer at all. Apple and Windows do not compete - Apple PC buyers do not purchase based on technical merits, and their users do not even open the machine. There is no point to a Mac version of BTV as it is inherently incompatible with the Mac mindset. Mac users are not looking for a solution to the DVR problem - they are simply buying whatever Apple tells them they need at a particular moment. It is a fundamentally different kind of advertising technique, similar to the successful Swiffer campaign. My two cents, take it as you wish.

[ZetaVu]

Great, then instead of wasting their time on porting to Apple, they can focus on porting to Linux. That'll save me the hassle of looking into mythtv.

Unlike your description of Mac people, linux people do love technology and toys and while most of them benefit from free products, a good portion of windows converts to linux are more than happy to pay for something that does what they want. Given the security of BTV and the reliability of it and its guide data next to the unknown (corporate america stamping out everything free) I think it is a safe investment, regardless of platform.

[rotorwash]

I, for one, would like to see a MAC (ppc) version of BTV Link. As for the rest, I use the technology appropriate to the task.

[DonK]

Mr Lumpy,

I think that's one of the most intelligently written summations of what it is to be (in general) an Apple customer.

What you described is spot-on with the mindset and attitude of *every* Apple owner I've ever known and still know, and it's kind of spooky, now that I think about it...

[rugby]

Let's take a look at a few things here before we dismiss all of Mac-Dom.

1) User interface. Apple has a relatively consistent user interface for most applications. They publish guidelines for developers to follow and most of them do a great job of making an application LOOK good and work well. I wish I could say that of Window's programmers. Most apps on the windows platform look like they had my 9 month old baby design the interface, with ugly buttons from one end of the toolbar to the other, with redundant menus in silly places, to inconsistent spacing between entities.

2) Different mindsets between Apple-Microsoft. Microsoft wants to do EVERYTHING ALL AT ONE TIME, even if they do it half-assed. They can say "hey, we offer that" even if it's beta quality at best. When they get around to it, they mature the product and stabilize it to the point of usability for the masses. Apple on the other hand, will offer a fair amount of products that do a few things, but they do them extremely well. The original iPod only played music, that's it. Then they added pictures, then video files, then a phone.

3) Mac users just want their computers to work. I use both platforms and have to say I spend 0 time tinkering with my Mac to update drivers solve problems that having too many companies involved can cause. Apple controls the software and the hardware so the experience is consistent

4) I will close this post by stating one simple fact, I would much rather own Apple stock right now than Microsoft.

[Khris]

Originally Posted by rugby

1) User interface......Most apps on the windows platform look like they had my 9 month old baby design the interface, with ugly buttons from one end of the toolbar to the other, with redundant menus in silly places, to inconsistent spacing between entities.

Perhaps you should start filling out the MENSA application now.

Originally Posted by rugby

2) Different mindsets between Apple-Microsoft. Microsoft wants to do EVERYTHING ALL AT ONE TIME, even if they do it half-assed. They can say "hey, we offer that" even if it's beta quality at best. When they get around to it, they mature the product and stabilize it to the point of usability for the masses. Apple on the other hand, will offer a fair amount of products that do a few things, but they do them extremely well. The original iPod only played music, that's it. Then they added pictures, then video files, then a phone.

Poor generalization at best. There are many PC programs that have been developed, and written extremely well.

As far as Apple products which do things "extremely well", how about the Apple Lisa? That was a definite winner!

Originally Posted by rugby

3) Mac users just want their computers to work. I use both platforms and have to say I spend 0 time tinkering with my Mac to update drivers solve problems that having too many companies involved can cause. Apple controls the software and the hardware so the experience is consistent

PC users just want their computers to work too......and there is a growing population who achieve that goal without any issues. I spend 0 time tinkering with any of the 4 desktops and 3 laptops running in my house right now to update drivers.

Apple controls the software and Hardware......in other words, Apple wants to control their users experience so that no one has too much original thought. El Jobso doesn't like it when Mac fans stray from his holy grail. The world "Cult" comes to mind.

Originally Posted by rugby

4) I will close this post by stating one simple fact, I would much rather own Apple stock right now than Microsoft.

Not everyone can be perfect.

Having said all that......I've used a Mac, it wasn't a horrible experience, however I have more reasons to use a PC.

[ZetaVu]

Ok, beyond tinkering with a mac I've never felt the need to play with it too much, in fact the last time I seriously worked with it (about 8 years ago, yes I know, night and day) it was horrible, but then again I was used to Windows. Had the same feeling but slightly less the first time I tried to use linux, different sucks at first. Now, comfortable as ever with it.

That said, I do have to comment that of the few mac owners I know, the bigger assortment of linux users, and the vast collection of windows users (and for that I mean power users, not my Aunt who checks email once a week) Mac users remind me of the hybrid owners from San Fran on Southpark. Windows users on the other hand, typically aren't very fond of m$, know the software is buggy but have spent many lengths sorting out the bugs (and are eager to help others as well) but otherwise do a hell of a lot more with computers than the mac guys would ever want to. The linux users, almost exclusively, ex windows power users in search of more freedom, the kind of people who have to fight the urge to take apart every new toy they buy to see how it works.

Now when someone has multiple platforms, typically they exhibit the dominant of the platform, mac<windows<linux. Truth be told I never got serious about the mac because I felt it was overpriced, didn't offer me anything that I couldn't get better in windows (or Linux), and was restricted both in hardware and software. But like the first poster pointed out, I definitely do not fit the Apple mold, and I take that as a compliment.

[Khris]

Originally Posted by ZetaVu

Truth be told I never got serious about the mac because I felt it was overpriced, didn't offer me anything that I couldn't get better in windows (or Linux), and was restricted both in hardware and software.

Exactly my reasons as well. Had there been something revolutionary on the Mac platform to spark my interest, I may have strayed away from PCs.

I'm forcing myself to become more familiar with Linux (Ubuntu) in small doses. As Zeta said, "different sucks at first" and he hit that nail bang on. Over time however, "different" becomes "familiar" and that's the only way to become comfortable with something new.

(For anyone interested in trying out Ubuntu, but not interested in the hassle of repartitioning your drive, check out "Wubi Ubuntu". It's an installer which will allow you to dual boot your system with Windows XP/Vista and Ubuntu all from your NTFS partition.)

I won't argue that there are things which a Mac can do better than a PC, however for my usage there isn't anything which I can't do on my PC that I need a Mac to accomplish. Use what works for you, bottom line.

[ZetaVu]

Linux partitioning is the worst part of the experience for me, I usually disconnet my other hard drives during install just to be safe, then do everything manually. Also, the ubuntu livecd is a great way to start playing, slow, but do it until you feel comfortable, then CAREFULLY partition and install.

[Plissken]

Originally Posted by mrlumpy

Macintosh purchasers are known, at least in my biz, as Brand Aspirationals. These people are not the early adopter types, they don't own the newest tech. They typically have older DVD players and what have you that were bought for Christmas gifts, etc. They don't truly "love" computers/electronics, and many don't know how PCs work fundamentally. They do spend a LOT of money though, so they are very very coveted. But the computer market != macintosh/brand aspirational market. So, here is some free advice Snapstream: I absolutely guarantee you will waste every single dollar you spend if you start up a Mac version of BTV. You won't recover a dime, simply because your company name is not Apple. That's the paradox of brand aspirationals - if Apple didn't exist, 90% of their users would simply not own a computer at all. Apple and Windows do not compete - Apple PC buyers do not purchase based on technical merits, and their users do not even open the machine. There is no point to a Mac version of BTV as it is inherently incompatible with the Mac mindset. Mac users are not looking for a solution to the DVR problem - they are simply buying whatever Apple tells them they need at a particular moment. It is a fundamentally different kind of advertising technique, similar to the successful Swiffer campaign. My two cents, take it as you wish.

I love how generalizations of Mac users are perfectly acceptable. If you'd rather just insult me directly please feel free. I'd be less offended, though, if you took the time to think, research and maybe in the end just not talk at all. You, sir, are an ignorant fool.

[rugby]

Originally Posted by Plissken

I love how generalizations of Mac users are perfectly acceptable. If you'd rather just insult me directly please feel free. I'd be less offended, though, if you took the time to think, research and maybe in the end just not talk at all. You, sir, are an ignorant fool.

Relax, do you really care what some anonymous user on a forum thinks of you? I used to work at Apple, and have supported Macs for 17 years now and I couldn't care less. You can speak as logically and concisely as you want to, but they don't listen, and they don't care what you think.

[Plissken]

Originally Posted by rugby

Relax, do you really care what some anonymous user on a forum thinks of you? I used to work at Apple, and have supported Macs for 17 years now and I couldn't care less. You can speak as logically and concisely as you want to, but they don't listen, and they don't care what you think.

No, I don't personally take offense. I'm well above so called "fighting on the internet", trust me. I just find it offensive as a human that someone is ok being so ignorant and abrasive.

[ZetaVu]

Sadly stereotypes do prevail, not on an individual level but on the grand "groupthink" scale. This is a chief facet of marketing, distinguishing groups based on their market behavior, hell, look at the mac vs pc ads, the mac guy is what they consider their target user, some 18-35 kid, doesn't want to be hassled by the technology or the tweaking, just wants it to do what he wants, etc, etc. Same with the typical softie or linux zealot (couldn't think up a different term), groups will portray certain key attributes, but that doesn't mean the individuals all act or think that way.

So yes, generalizations of groups is not only acceptable, but it is part of business and politics as we know it, don't blame Mrlumpy, he made what I took as an honest opinion that seems pretty to the point. IF you don't like Apple's marketing strategy (which is really what is being discussed here), take it up with them.