Do you own an Apple Mac computer?

[DonK]

I think Macs are fine for what they do, they are very good multimedia machines and publishing machines.

I might own one if there were more pieces of software out there that I was interested in, or simply to tinker with one, I thought about getting a Mini last year to see what all the hubub was about.

What makes me not want to own one is the whole narrow-mindedness of Apple's of the OS being tied to specified hardware, and then having the gall to say they're the most stable OS out there for the consumer. Sure, I could go purchase specific parts and tailor XP for it and make it totally crashproof on that basis too!

It's *really* annoying to me when Apple nerds speak up on their high horse of "security, stability, and virus-free" nonsense, because I've seen plenty of XP/2K/98/95 boxes that were crash free in all my years of supporting them when they were properly configured and made with quality parts.

The Windows-basher fanboi Apple polishers out there point their fingers and laugh at us MS geeks, when quite honestly they cannot make the same claim Microsoft can:

On a system with proper qualified and tested drivers, and proper hardware that isn't cheap or flawed in some way, Windows is just as stable as any other OS, even Apple's OSX. (Barring some ill-written programming from a third party vendor, but I dare you to tell me that badly written software on the Mac doesn't exist either)

What a lot of Mac people don't really take into account is Windows is written to be stable on a wide scale of equipment that not even Apple can claim to match, otherwise we'd be able to purchase OSX for the PC and have a *real* choice for an OS preference.

It's pointless for me to compare Apple to Microsoft. There isn't really a good common frame of reference to stand them up against each other on their technical merits. They're entirely different organisms with their own way of doing things.

They're tools. And there are various tools for various jobs.

As far as the price of Macs, well that comes from a monopoly on their platform. If Apple really wanted to compete with Microsoft, they'd open OSX up to be freely installed without restrictions on the hardware it is installed on, and make it easier for hardware manufacturers to support their product under OSX.

The problem is, we all know that Apple wouldn't live up to that challenge at all.

[rugby]

Yeah, but Apple has the iPhone.....

[satkinson]

Donk wrote:

"I think Macs are fine for what they do, they are very good multimedia machines and publishing machines."

Well, sorta. I use both Macs and Winboxen every day to record, cut up and post various video files, and it's a distinctly mixed bag.

Macs are, in general, more elegant to use, as everyone knows.

However, on the low end tv front, there is no Mac MPEG editor as good as TMPG's or - for that matter - VideoReDo.

There is only one major player on the dvr front - eyeTV - and while I think their guide is really good, I can't get the quality out of the recording that btv gives me.

Also, there is no cheap flash converter tool that is as good as several on the Windows side - yes, I know about ffmpeg and the rest, but none of them, so far as I can tell, let me adjust contrast and color.

There seems to be a faint air of, what?, disdain for tv on the Mac side - they'll sell you shows thru' iTunes, and let you play em' back on the new AppleTV, but as for the dirty plebe work of actually recording, say, Wheel of Fortune reruns...well, that's a task best left to those Windows folks.

Or something like that.

Scott A.

[hlclark78]

Originally Posted by rakeshagrawal

If you don't own one, I'd be interested in hearing why you would or wouldn't consider buying one.

The reason I like BeyondTV or even the Tivo concept is that my time is worth a lot, both in terms of money, but more importantly my time with my family. I would love to have a BeyondTV Mac Server created, as OSX would allow support of the new iTV's as well as still allowing people that want to tinker to get under the hood to support those "grey area" problems, like DVI, or Firewire capture.

I am a video game developer in Seattle. I really appreciate closed hardware solutions (for bug testing). In the past you can't have a crash on a consol as there was no patching. I was always frustrated with PC and other developers whom rely and depend on the luxuries of patches. What I like about my Mac software is the stability, as they have the luxury of a limited hardware base to test. I was a long time PC lover, and happy Linux hobbyist. But after 10 years to messing around with PC and various OS's I had grown detached from the true meaning of functionality. Too many times I was stuck trying to explain to two companies that there software or hardware wasn't functioning. Microsoft has lowered everyone standards of what the computer experience should be, as well as destroying the concept of basic functionality and reliability. As one person mentioned many years ago, if we all drove cars designed by Microsoft we would all be dead. When I watch my grandmother or parents struggle with PC technology it breaks my heart as a developer. When I go to a convention and the projector won't work and people shout out how they might try and fix the solution makes me laugh. It's pathetic how far we have come but how so many products are incompatible, and these are man-made. Apple might not work with everything but when it says it works, it delivers.

For many years I was anti-Mac... I don't even know why. I thought Mac users were stupid computer users who could barely find a CD drive. To me, using a PC meant I had my act together, I could be that super geek that could make it work. But after a decade this knowledge became a burden. I quickly learned to never open my mouth at companies or else you would become someone personal IT helper. This annoyance started to build once I was developing. Rarely did anything ever work out of the box, no matter what the quality. Sometime cheaper solutions worked better the high end solutions. Later when I compared my Professional PC products side by side with a Mac I can see the higher level of quality in the Mac. While many things on a PC do work, you can find thousands of devices that don't work for some reason. Even if they are high quality, because device A does something device B isn't ready for. In the end the User gets burned.

When OSX came out everything changed for me. It had the power and efficiency of UNIX, and the candy coating of Apple design. At first I was skeptical about how many people would stay loyal to Mac after the huge code changes that were required. But once Adobe and Macromedia ported there key software it was all down hill. When Maya and Shake were on the Mac I had everything I wanted. From there OSX has only gotten better, but I still scoffed at the hardware costs. OSX 10.4 (Tiger) really made me jealous, especially when I looked at what Vista was turning into. SP 2 for XP really pushed me over the edge. When Macs moved to Intel and the price point dropped I lost my last excuse. During this time I had many friends whom had left Microsoft who switched to Mac out of frustration, as they couldn't fix the company from the inside. Like my friends and my peers at Penny-Arcade I had forgotten what "just works" really means.

Since then I still have a couple PC's around. I still am upset that it take almost 8 hour to format a PC, install Window XP and then install hours of patches and Service Packs. It's pathetic. Even present day Linux is much easier to install then Windows.

When the MacBook came out I decided to breakdown and get it, for my wife. After about a week of messing with the MacBook, finding that I didn't need half the software on a Mac that I did on a PC, and finding very good alternatives to my PC software my wife's ended up kicking me off her Mac as I was hogging it. That was 4 months ago. Since then I have decided to go almost completely Mac. Even my father has asked me about his interest in getting a Mac after I sent him a photo book I put together of my daughter using iLife. Now I have a Mac Mini running OSX Server providing DHCP, Samba PDC, DNS, etc. I use an easy turnkey, Infrant 2.0 TB NAS to providing storage and backup for my house, (Mac or PC). The last Windows computer in the house are running BTV. I even want to replace those with more efficient devices like the iTV. The last PC in my house other then the the BTV systems is my workstation. Unfortunately, as a Dev I am forced to keep a PC most of the time. I don't hate PCs, it's Windows that bugs me, after all all my Macs are Intel based.

With the launch of the iTV I can finally get the true home experience I want. Wireless, media-less, and stability, all in a elegant and clean delivery system. I now just have to wait for some of the 3rd party capture systems to support the iTV.

The Windows PC are becoming a dieing breed. To me they are a waste of money at this point. The future will see more packaged systems running embedded OS's to minimize Virus', support encrypted processors to stop piracy, and over all have fixed hardware to simplify testing. You'll see more end user applications and devices for Xbox's, Wii's, and PS3's. The gaming devices will be sold more and more as full family computer solutions. All of the companies are converging on the same goal, to squeeze out the hackers and control the hardware and force development standard. Control is key to maintaining standards in the commercial world. (Something Apple has done for many years.) We have a good balance now of a medium power client machine, and a very power cluster back end. In the end, if all goes well, it won't matter how it works, just as long as it does work. That is what consumers will want, and finally companies are starting to be able to deliver this quality again. More companies will start copy writing their UI like Microsoft has done with Office 2007. It won't matter how or what it works on, but how people work with it, and that is works in the first place. For me, I have higher standards for the concept of "works".

Assuming anyone is going to read this entire post, I want to point out one last thought. Macs are not perfect, they are computers, they still have hardware and software glitches. They can crash, they can sometime freeze. What they don't have is virus's. Zero proven viruses! No spy-ware! If you are on a PC right now do you have Virus protection? Maybe a second Spy-ware protection program? My guess is yes... I do on my PC. Everything I have written is just my opinion and is based on my experience and lifestyle. My opinion has changed as I grew up and my life's priorities have changed and matured. Some people love to tinker, and that is clear from how emotional people get when people challenge their favorite OS. For me, I don't have time to tinker as much, and I surely don't like or want to tinker with computers. It's the same way I sold my Jeep Wranger (the worlds best adult tinker toy) and purchase a much more conservative Toyota Prius. It's all about priorities, resources, trust, and professionalism. For me I have learned that I love life away from my computer, and that I can't do everything in life with my own too hands if I am to get important stuff done. Mac's have helped me in this department.

[queonda]

Originally Posted by rugby

Yeah, but Apple has the iPhone.....

And iTV

[kramsauer]

If BTV ports to Apple, I'm there. Fast.

[queonda]

Originally Posted by rugby

Yeah, but Apple has the iPhone.....

Uh, maybe NOT. Cisco does! http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=4266

[fester]

Originally Posted by rugby

Rule #1, don't ever buy memory from Apple. Buy from any other vendor such as Crucial, it wil save you money.

Rule #2, all Macs ship with a Mighty Mouse which can be configured as a 2-button mouse through System Preferences. It also has a bi-directional scroll wheel.

Rule #3, If you think Final Cut Studio is expensive, you don't need it. Get Final Cut Express or live with iMovie which is free on any new Mac.

1 -oh the macpro was config'd for 4gig from apple - you cant order a machine from apple with no memory (I tried) and I wanted to start with 2x 2gb sticks. 4x 1gb (the only option) is no good. 4gb (2x 2gb) ecc macpro compatible is still 740 on neweeg but apple wanted 1100 for 4X 1gb sticks. I wanted 2gb sticks only (to get to 16gb someday) so if I wanted to order I would have had to start with 4X 2gb @ 3000 bucks

2 -mighty moose?

3 -FCP5 would be nice to have. I still borrow a friends machine to run it /learn it. works well with my protools setup using m audio inputs. I think vegas is much better now and still <800 or 300 w/ upgrade. Avid way too much$ to justify but nice

[GJM]

Originally Posted by Eric3a

This guys says it best:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...60189868317794

Reminded me of my Mac experience!
Eric

That is funny but not true.

BTW, your bad experience with Macs, how long ago was that and what Macs and OS were they using?

[GJM]

I've always built my own PC's and it's true that if you use quality parts there is no reason why it can't be an extremely stable machine. I never used virus software and I don't ever remember getting one. If you know what to look for you can avoid just about all of the virus and spyware out there.

Security is far superior on the Mac because it's built on Unix and not DOS.

However, most aren't as careful and always have problems. I would have to reload my wife's computer at least once a year. I got tired of it and forced her to use a Mac. She was kicking and screaming as I switched her over. After less than one day she loved it. I have not had to reload her computer since then.

Best thing about the Mac, NO VIRUSES OR SPYWARE!!!!!! Thank you OSX and yes you're forced to buy what is the equivalent of the more expensive PC hardware but in the end it's worth it. How many weekends have I spent trying to get something fixed or working on a PC? Not so with the Mac.

I still use PC's but only for things that require it like BTV. Elgato isn't even close to BTV if no other reason than the fact that BTV's schedular is better and more reliable. Plus I can put together a great BTV server far cheaper than an Apple version because the hardware can be tailored to the needs of BTV without any extras.

BTW, since I finally broke down and got a Mac my whole family has followed. My brother and sister's families as well as my father all now use Macs.

The best "little" feature that I like about the Mac is the spell checker that works throughout the whole system and not just in Word. The best "big" feature is my computer not getting messed up by a poorly written driver, poorly written software, spyware or viruses.

[Zaap]

Originally Posted by rugby

Zaap,

The new Mac Pro Towers have been shown to be cheaper than the comparable Dell pro towers.

That's nice, but then I personally wouldn't buy either. (An overpriced Dell, or an overpriced Mac Pro tower.)

By the way, I too am sick of the whole phony mantra of 'no viruses or spyware' that fanboys constantly spout. There's no viruses or spyware on any of my computers, because I know how to use one.

[rugby]

Originally Posted by Zaap

That's nice, but then I personally wouldn't buy either. (An overpriced Dell, or an overpriced Mac Pro tower.)

By the way, I too am sick of the whole phony mantra of 'no viruses or spyware' that fanboys constantly spout. There's no viruses or spyware on any of my computers, because I know how to use one.

Most people don't know how to use computers. I work in the industry, I know this for a fact. That's how I get to charge as much as I do for onsite service. I'm GLAD they don't know what they're doing.

[gkg]

I own several Macs and two linux boxes (one for Ubuntu, the other for Suzie).

The only reason I have PCs in my house is, quite frankly, to run BTV. When I built my first PVR, the choices were BTV and ATI Media centre. None of the early Linux "products" had Canadian EPG.

ATI Didn't have client/server. Niether did BTV, but if you mounted remote volumes, it worked well enough.

I would have bought a MAC PVR in a HEARTBEAT if there had been one. Why?

Because my 3 CPU BTV network (4 if you count a laptop that I use sometimes on planes) runs like every other wintel box on the planet!

I have used spec built HTPC, box- stock name brand (ACER, Sony, Dell) with top end GPUs and running genuine Windows with NOTHING else on them but BTV and a couple of million of MS' dlls and .exes cobbled together to approximate an OS.

Every 6 months, like clockwork, they start to show symptoms of Window's Half life. Slow performance, hangs, mysterious reboot and a blue screen time to wipe out my wife's only favorite shows.

So I have a painful schedule where I devote 1 entire evening every 3-4 months to do a down-to-a-reformat reinstall of Windows and hope like hell my Hauppauge and ATI drivers down decide to not work this time.

My Macs and Linux boxes have been running, in some cases for Years with every bit of downloaded crap my wife and kids can be phised into clicking on and they need a cold boot every time I move houses.

If Snapstream had a mac product I'd have that. As it is, I'm stuck in a limbo where BTV is adequate but I'm terrified as to the future if MS actually sticks to thier plans to limited reinstalls of Vista.

I bought a new Acer (they are as quiet out of the box as anything Zalman ever made) with an Intell Core 2 Duo E6300 just before Christmas as my new BTV server espressly to get XP2K on the box and Vista in the mail. This way I cdan run XP for another year to 2 and crack the Vista when they get over themselves.

I actully see myself running either MS Media centre with next gen Xbox 360's as clients when MS sees fit to grant full operability of the Xbos as a Media centre client in the future (read: set up a recording from the Xbox)

I am not a gamer and don't own a single console, but buying $250 console as BTV link equvalents that are silent and stable beats putting BTV link on either a Noisy, unstable $300 PC (more if you approximate the GPU in an XBOX), or $600 for a quiet, unstable PC....

I don't hold out any hope for Viiv nor do i think Apple wants to make a DVR. They're going straight to an IPTV realm and I don't want to pay that much for my programming. I like to use BTV to "mine" a realtively small number of channels for quality programming over time, timeshift sports and the news.

[gkg]

I own several Macs and two linux boxes (one for Ubuntu, the other for Suzie).

The only reason I have PCs in my house is, quite frankly, to run BTV. When I built my first PVR, the choices were BTV and ATI Media centre. None of the early Linux "products" had Canadian EPG.

ATI Didn't have client/server. Niether did BTV, but if you mounted remote volumes, it worked well enough.

I would have bought a MAC PVR in a HEARTBEAT if there had been one. Why?

Because my 3 CPU BTV network (4 if you count a laptop that I use sometimes on planes) runs like every other wintel box on the planet!

I have used spec built HTPC, box- stock name brand (ACER, Sony, Dell) with top end GPUs and running genuine Windows with NOTHING else on them but BTV and a couple of million of MS' dlls and .exes cobbled together to approximate an OS.

Every 6 months, like clockwork, they start to show symptoms of Window's Half life. Slow performance, hangs, mysterious reboot and a blue screen time to wipe out my wife's only favorite shows.

So I have a painful schedule where I devote 1 entire evening every 3-4 months to do a down-to-a-reformat reinstall of Windows and hope like hell my Hauppauge and ATI drivers down decide to not work this time.

My Macs and Linux boxes have been running, in some cases for Years with every bit of downloaded crap my wife and kids can be phised into clicking on and they need a cold boot every time I move houses.

If Snapstream had a mac product I'd have that. As it is, I'm stuck in a limbo where BTV is adequate but I'm terrified as to the future if MS actually sticks to thier plans to limited reinstalls of Vista.

I bought a new Acer (they are as quiet out of the box as anything Zalman ever made) with an Intell Core 2 Duo E6300 just before Christmas as my new BTV server espressly to get XP2K on the box and Vista in the mail. This way I cdan run XP for another year to 2 and crack the Vista when they get over themselves.

I actully see myself running either MS Media centre with next gen Xbox 360's as clients when MS sees fit to grant full operability of the Xbos as a Media centre client in the future (read: set up a recording from the Xbox)

I am not a gamer and don't own a single console, but buying $250 console as BTV link equvalents that are silent and stable beats putting BTV link on either a Noisy, unstable $300 PC (more if you approximate the GPU in an XBOX), or $600 for a quiet, unstable PC....

I don't hold out any hope for Viiv nor do i think Apple wants to make a DVR. They're going straight to an IPTV realm and I don't want to pay that much for my programming. I like to use BTV to "mine" a realtively small number of channels for quality programming over time, timeshift sports and the news.

[blaze818]

i have heard a lot of talk to get btvlink to work on a mac mini. you all should think about building a mini-itx computer http://www.mini-itx.com/. they are small enough for all situations. somone should build one of these and let us know how it works with link, as i dont see any problems.

as for whether or not i will buy a mac is a touchy subject. my house is a house divided. my father is a die hard mac user and i am the exact opposite. every time i go home for the holidays i can look foward to a heated discussion.

the only reason i would buy a mac is for photo/video editing. although i use my desktop to edit videos all day. if i got serious about it i would probably end up getting a G5.