Annoyed

[Khris]

A message to everyone who thinks THEIR BTV feature request is more important than anyone elses.

What makes you so much more important that your childish "need" should take priority over other more popular issues?

DVB vs Integration for example.

Integration has been promised by SS for well over a year and is an EXTREMELY hot issue that deserves attention. DVB does not. (YES THIS IS MY OPINION) There are not as many people who would benefit from having BTV support DVB compared to BM and BTV Integration, plain and simple!!

Yes it's fine to wish for a new feature to be added to BTV, but it's *NOT* ok to ride your high horse and try to pawn your idea off as the most important issue using stupid examples like maps and graphics!

Perhaps because I would like to see a couple new features, I should go on a crusade to have them added at all costs and slam everyone elses ideas because they aren't mine.

[mapleleaf]

I can not agree with your comment that DVB is not an important feature! It just shows your egocentric North American attitude with stupid believe that North America is technological center of the world still. For example US and Canada are 5-10 years behind rest of the world in GSM (cell phone technology) or digital satellite broadcasting… There are many users of BTV outside of US and Canada who find request for DVB perfectly legitimate, same as users on North American continent keep asking for QAM support. What makes you to believe that YOU are better than rest of the world?!

[cfaslave]

Both feature requests are important. Truth is SS will do what they think they need to. I would be happy if they integrated BM & BTV, fixed the BM bugs, added QAM added DVB and PIP all this Monday. Unfortunately that won't happen.
Guys, lets request what we each think is important and leave it at that. This just isn't productive.

[mapleleaf]

Originally Posted by cfaslave

This just isn't productive.

Totally agree, this will lead nowhere… Sorry, just could not help myself not to respond to Khris who starts new thread just because he feels inconvenienced by someone (users in rest of the world) who ask for feature that Khris will never need in his life, therefore, it is not important! There are tons of features and bug fixes we are all waiting for and none is less important then the other.

[AdmA]

thats funny...I am from the US, and I would like to see DVB added so that SS's customer base would expand, in turn generating more funds for the features I would personally love to have....

[MarcP]

Originally Posted by Khris

Integration has been promised by SS for well over a year and is an EXTREMELY hot issue that deserves attention. DVB does not.

Wrong. DVB support has been promised too last year.

[Khris]

Originally Posted by MarcP

Wrong. DVB support has been promised too last year.

I love seeing when people don't incude the entire quote to try further their own opinions. Why did you not include the part where I stated (YES THIS IS MY OPINION)?

And to mapleleaf, *MY* post was not a personal attack, it was an opinion. Obviously I hit a nerve however as you seem to have taken it personal and then decided to launch a childish attack of your own. Speaks volumes.

You are entitled to your own opinion, however not at the expense of removing value from someone elses.

[MarcP]

Originally Posted by Khris

and then decided to launch a childish attack of your own. Speaks volumes.

Practice what you preach..

http://forums.snapstream.com/vb/show...884#post207884
http://forums.snapstream.com/vb/show...78&postcount=4

And then there's this thread that you just had to create. Couldn't resist, right?

[Khris]

Originally Posted by MarcP

Practice what you preach..

http://forums.snapstream.com/vb/show...884#post207884
http://forums.snapstream.com/vb/show...78&postcount=4

And then there's this thread that you just had to create. Couldn't resist, right?

Just like you couldn't resist getting your little digs in too. Hi Kettle, you're black!

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Khris

A message to everyone who thinks THEIR BTV feature request is more important than anyone elses.

Well, this is what you think. In the last thread initied by Brett, I don't remember anyone claiming that a feature is more important that any other. Everyone was asked the feature they want to be included in BTV / BM / Firefly...

What makes you so much more important that your childish "need" should take priority over other more popular issues?

DVB vs Integration for example.

Integration has been promised by SS for well over a year and is an EXTREMELY hot issue that deserves attention. DVB does not. (YES THIS IS MY OPINION) There are not as many people who would benefit from having BTV support DVB compared to BM and BTV Integration, plain and simple!!

On the contrary you are trying to prove that the feature you want is more important than others.

Integration has been promised.
DVB has been promised in the same way
And some other features also are "in the works"

Perhaps because I would like to see a couple new features, I should go on a crusade to have them added at all costs and slam everyone elses ideas because they aren't mine.

I don't remember anyone going into a crusade.

From my point of view, I do think that BTV should :

* be a all in one product (so go for integration)
* be open to other countries, this means : supporting other capture means (DVB be one of them), supporting other languages (users can very well translate thing all alone, but the infrastructure to support this is only to be found in 3.6 version)
* refine it's UI
* propose some Internet streaming to many devices (PC / Extender / Phones) including transcoding LiveTV (from MPEG2 or whatever to a streaming format).

Without this (and this is my opinion), BTV is not as appealing as other products already available or to be available.

So as many other BTV users, I made the BTV choice because a few years back it was the best product available. It's clearly not the case anymore (for me and for others). That's why we are voicing our opinion when we are asked to, in the hope we can made BTV evolve as a loyal supporters.

That said if SS is not able to offer some of the feature asked by some users, this is not the end of the world because there is competition.

DVB Users : there is already already 4 competitors and one to come (not including Media Center)
Those who want integration : there is already many competitors and more to come (not including Media Center)

For my own personal usage, this is how I see things in the near future :

* I already dropped BTV for another competitor product (since april 2006)
* I'm waiting for a new class of hardware to be available (DVB-S2 satellite card)
* I'm waiting for new PVR Software that will support : payed subscription and H.264 HDTV

The first software to get out that let me watch paid TV with a simple UI will get my money.

Though I would be happy to take the BTV boat again when they will be ready. Today and in the near future, from what we can all read here, they are not ready to offer anything valuable for European market, and to me it's sad because I do think they have a potential market.

However, I do not know the potential market size, so the investment for opening to non U.S.A. market could be hudge without returns, that's why I do recommend SS to not invest too much but only change a little BTV to adapt to other countries :

* External recorder : this do not involve having access to foreing stream. This is also useful for U.S.A. market (firewire / QAM / network clustering...)
* Language infrastructure : ressource externalisation, this is already done. But currently when you upgrad to another version of BTV => all language change must be done again. The same goes for user aspect ratio for instance : this is simply bad software design and should be fixed.

And there is many many things that would benefit the BTV product for US and non US market. For instance another big issue is captionning. It seem still odd to me that BTV (and it's main competitor) doesn't support fully closed caption. This issue should be adressed, and adressed well : because not all countries are using the same way to include captionning into the broadcast. Again this is design decision : a good design will be future proof, a bad design is a dead end and will cost money.

If you want you can go to the Media Portal forums and read posts about design decision : you'll be able to read some great design decision regarding some issues (international issues or not). This is the result of a great community exchange about a PVR product (Though MediaPortal has still a loooooong way to go)

I don't see why on the SnapStream forums we cannot have the same discussions to make evolve the BTV product, without being constantly attacked.

Best Regards,
Stéphane.

[Khris]

Originally Posted by Khris

There are not as many people who would benefit from having BTV support DVB compared to BM and BTV Integration, plain and simple!!

And as per the current results in this thread: What *new* features do you want?

I guess I'm pretty bang on with my statement above.

[mikem]

BTV/BM integration is indeed probably the biggest single issue at the moment for users of the products, however until Snapstream decide what to do with BM then that isn't going to happen. Do they integrate it, do they make it opensource, do they just kill it off etc.

Whilst that is indeed true I don't seem to read in the threads that people asking for DVB support or any other feature request for that matter are saying that there feature request, is more important than anyone elses feature request. They are merely asking for the feature to be added.

Snapstream have certainly shot themselves in the foot by making statements such as that they will make the integrated version free to owners of BTV and BM, along with free upgrade to DVB supporting versions. I can't wait to see what happens when someone who bought a localised version 3.6 of Snapstream in Europe claims there free upgrade to a BTV supporting version and see how snapstream try to wriggle out of it, as it is likely to be BTV 10.x by then. Making statements like that will annoy customers expecting snapstream to deliver. It is even more annoying when you read a review where they tell the review site that they are working on a feature when they clearly aren't when you read these forums.

If people seem to be asking for feature requests then it is a good thing as it shows that they are passionate about the product and want it too succeed. If you don't ask then you will never get what you want.

I wouldn't be suprised at a lack of DVB support due to the BTV market share currently being small outside America, if BTV 3.6 was supposed to be a serious attempt to expand into Europe then it was a very poor effort indeed, and the lack of localised versions since indicates a poor uptake of those versions. Expecting people to subscribe to tvtv and then saying there is your tv listings is a bit off. Also supporting only Analogue cards when it is known that Analogue is being switched off seems pointless. People building HTPC's will be savvy enough to know that Analogue is been switched off and so ignore the product in favour of one that is Digital supporting.

500 downloads a month of StephaneM's XMLTV importer for BTV shows there is interest outside North America, but it would appear to me that of those 500 very few people are actually buying BTV afterwards for whatever reason.

If Snapstream ever expect to succeed outside of North America then they will need to get non North American Features into the product, otherwise they should just come straight out and say North American Product Only, and then the rest of the world can find an alternative product.

Personally I am using MCE2005 as it can do everything that I need now, and am going over to MediaPortal once the tvengine 3.0 with multiple backend/frontend support is released. When looking for an alternative to use in the interim, if it didn't support DVB then it got rejected straight off. I like to keep an eye on BTV/BM though with the rose tinted view that DVB support will be added one day, however I don't expect it any day soon.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by mikem

500 downloads a month of StephaneM's XMLTV importer for BTV shows there is interest outside North America, but it would appear to me that of those 500 very few people are actually buying BTV afterwards for whatever reason.

Perfectly correct. Though I receive more donations for BTV XMLTV Importer, than for the SageTV one... (The latter also support native tvtv program guide, not just tvtv scheduled recordings but it still inferior to a good XMLTV source)

.../... and am going over to MediaPortal once the tvengine 3.0 with multiple backend/frontend support is released. When looking for an alternative to use in the interim, if it didn't support DVB then it got rejected straight off.

Certainly an interesting project to survey : and this new tv engine could be used as a recorder for BTV (or other PVR software). As I said the design of MP is getting better and will support paid TV (nothing been anounced yet for H.264 HDTV). Another product to survey is the OEM Cyberlink PowerCinema to be sold with future Hauppauge products and this will also support paid TV and H.264 HDTV)

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Jon Hancock]

You're not coming across very well Khris. As I said in a previous post you seem to live by the I'm all right Jack attitude. As long as YOU get what YOU want! People, including myself are just requesting features to be included in future releases. Frustration is rearing its ugly head because of the statements made by snapstream regarding integration and DVB support. The reason I request support is that in a few years the only TV available in the UK will be via Satellite and cable, by which point will be HD or Freeview (DVB). Therefore the only way I forsee being able to record HD without a huge subscription fee, if indeed possible is by DVB. Why are you getting so frustrated by other peoples requests. Calm down you'll give yourself a hernia!

Cheers
Jon.

[Khris]

Originally Posted by Jon Hancock

You're not coming across very well Khris. As I said in a previous post you seem to live by the I'm all right Jack attitude. As long as YOU get what YOU want! People, including myself are just requesting features to be included in future releases. Frustration is rearing its ugly head because of the statements made by snapstream regarding integration and DVB support. The reason I request support is that in a few years the only TV available in the UK will be via Satellite and cable, by which point will be HD or Freeview (DVB). Therefore the only way I forsee being able to record HD without a huge subscription fee, if indeed possible is by DVB. Why are you getting so frustrated by other peoples requests. Calm down you'll give yourself a hernia!

Cheers
Jon.

My gripe was never meant for those who have the courtesy of thinking their posts out and wording them so as not to offend others.

It's the fanatics which believe in the "my way or the highway" theory that aggrivate me. I made it very clear that "Integration was more important than DVB" was MY OPINION and not necessarily the holy grail which everyone should follow, yet that was taken out of context and turned around against me. I also stated that due to the numbers of people looking for Integration as compared to DVB, it didn't make sense for SS to devote time. money, and effort into developing a feature which only part of the world could use as compared to one (Integration) which would be useful across the board. (The unofficial feature request poll is a good indication of what people are looking for, isn't it?)

If a feature is built into a product in the hopes that it captures a market share previously unavailable, however never really catches on or makes a substantial difference, why would a company continue to invest into it?