Help - multipple BTV Help - multiple BTV servers and BTVLink clients

[mapleleaf]

I and 4 of my friends living in separate houses have decided to build 2 or 3 dedicated BTV servers with 10 analog tuners in each (no HDTV just yet). We plan to utilize our existing 1 GB private LAN we have build few years back for gaming purposes and don’t use so much anymore. These servers should be able to accommodate 20 BTVLink clients initially with prospect of going up to 60 concurrent users. We plan to build the whole bunch of silent low cost living room computers with BTVLink license for each. Each one of us will have from 3 to 5 client boxes at home. This setup seems to make more sense than each of us having separate BTV server to maintain at home and recording same shows simultaneously when we can use preexisting tuners to record different channels. We plan to balance the load on servers and that is why we need 2 or 3 of them. Now this is where I need the advice… We can share pre-recorded shows between multiple servers by creating number of video folders on each server that are essentially mapped shared folders on other computers.

1. The problem is that we cannot watch the live show being recorded at another server than the one we are connected to. We have to wait for the show to stop being recorded before being able to watch it.
2. Other problem is that we still have to record the same show multiple times simultaneously on different computers because our interconnected servers are unable to balance the workload and use resources (tuners) efficiently when more of us users decide to select the same show to be recorded trough our BTV link machines.
3. We need to have frequent discussions before we can delete recorded show after everyone had a chance to watch it.

I know that problem 1 and 2 could be solved by having just one BTV server shared among all of use, however, I am very doubtful that we could build reliable server with 20+ tuners (PCI & USB) and the machine would be powerful enough to serve 20 BTVLinks at once. The problem # 3 seems unsolvable presently, unless server would delete certain show only after every BTVLink client would have sent delete command or after certain number of days automatically.

So the question is how do you, the users with big families, deal with problem # 3? And those of you with more than one BTV server, how did you setup your system?

[mapleleaf]

I see that no one is able to answer my questions so let me try to rephrase most important one. I am quite desperate here…

My main problem is dealing with multiple BTVLink computers in one house. From signatures I see that many of you have a number of BTV clients at home… For example, how do you guys prevent your kids from erasing you favorite show before you had a chance to watch it? Since all BTVLink computers have equal rights to access recorded shows on BTV server I am afraid that other family members would be accidentally erasing the show before other people had a chance to watch them and this applies mainly to some very popular shows that almost all family members watch? Any ideas, please?

[cmcquistion]

I have different Video folders for different purposes and I can choose to record a show to V:\Name1\ or V:\Name2\ or V:\Name1_and_Name2\. This way I know what recordings were set up by what person.

How do you handle deleting recordings out of multiple-user folders? Don't. If you set up Automatic Folder Management, you can specify how much free space you want to leave on the drive (20GB, for instance.). When the drive has less than that, it will automatically delete the oldest recordings. If someone hasn't watched a show that has been sitting there, for a month, it is gone.

Why do you think you'll need 20+ tuners? How many clients will you ultimately serve and how many DIFFERENT shows are actually going to be recorded at once. Snapstream already showed us a 10 tuner machine (maybe more than that), so it can definitely be done, if you have the drive space and horsepower. The question is how many tuners you really need.

Personally, I think it is completely reasonable to have 10 tuners for 20 viewers. Chances are, even with 20 individuals, they are going to be recording a LOT of the same shows and how many of those shows are going to be recording during the exact same time slot? You could set up an individual video folder for each user and then a Common video folder for any show that multiple people are going to watch.

My two cents...

[nanook105]

#3 is a constant problem. Most of the time, it is resolved by me asking each person if they have finished watching (usually when the disk is getting full). Since I manage the "infrastructure", I have a good idea who set up which recordings and who is watching which shows. Although, that is a moving target because all of us have started watching shows that another recorded at one time or another. So, here are some of the things that I would suggest:

• Buy many, many Big Disks
• Set up separate recording directories for shows that are record and delete vs record and keep.
• Nominate someone to "manage/monitor" disk usage and activity

As for multiple servers, I probably take a different approach than most. I have three BTV servers and configure/use them based on function. One is the primary recording server, the second is the primary live TV server, and the third is the secondary recording and editing server

Recording Server
This server currently has 5 tuners (Media in my sig) and is dedicated to recording. All ongoing recordings (record new/record all) are scheduled on this server. Ongoing recordings that are set up on the other servers are actively migrated to this server by the admin (me)

Live TV Server
This server currently has 5 tuners (2 HD and 3 analog). All of my link clients currently connect to this server (not forced via switch, but everyone knows that they need to connect to this server). This server also handles one time recordings and sometimes ongoing recordings are scheduled (that I later move to the recording server)

Backup Recording/Editing Server
I mostly use this for BTV testing, video editing, and video compression.

Changes to BTV that would help

• General support for a multiple server environment.
• Ability for the recording engine to use any available tuner on any BTV server on the network for recording
• Ability for BTV link to connect to a "virtual server" with a "virtual guide" and "virtual folders"
• Ability to watch a recording in progress on another BTV server

[nanook105]

One other thing that we do to manage shows that we all (or groups of us) like to watch. We let several weeks/episodes record and then get together as a family to watch. Actually - a nice side benefit

[mapleleaf]

thanks a lot for your responses…

As far number of tuners for regular recordings is concerned, cmcquistion you are right, however, I wanted to have enough tuners for case that many people decide to watch live TV while recording on different channel. Than your tuner requirements will essentially double… In any case, I think that 10-15 will be enough. We have that many tuners already so why not to use them.

We already use multiple video folders created trough Video Folder Management, however, there is only one default video folder that BTV uses to store new recordings. As far I know you cannot instructs BTV to record different shows to different video folders. Even if I was manually moving new recording to different folder (which would be probably very cumbersome and unnecessarily time consuming) for purpose of easier management, clients could still access all video files in all folders setup on BTV server and erase them at will. I am not so concerned about adults here so much but there will be many kids involved that may not understand all the rules for recordings management involved.

nanook105 if I am correct BTVLink can access only one server at one time. So if I went with you approach I would have to teach my kids how to switch between different servers if they decide to watch already recorded shows or live TV instead…

I think that BTVLink lacks any feature designed for this kind of scenario and honestly I am quite surprised, because I am not the only one with many BTVLink users under one roof.
As you have mentioned already nanook105, some BTV multiple user managing feature would be very welcome…

[nanook105]

You can designate/override the recording folder at the show level (Record to in the FSI and Target Video Folder in Web Admin). Not much/any value for one time recordings, but useful for record all or record new. Also, for the shows that I record daily for my wife where quality doesn't matter (Oprah, soaps, etc), I set up showsqueeze to squeeze to a different directory than the recording directory.

It would be nice if BTV recorded to any/multiple folders as a default, but there are workarounds. I agree that they really didn't think through a multiple link/multiple server environment very well.

[mapleleaf]

That’s a good idea, I did not know about this option (I don’t go to web admin that often). That would certainly at least partially improve my situation… It would be nice if this setting was accessible from FSI as well.

[cmcquistion]

I'm assuming that Nanook has configured his multiple servers with file sharing on their video folders and then each BTV server has the other BTV server's folders available as one of their video folders. In this case, you could connect to any of the servers, via Link, and see all available programming.

This is what I did a few years ago. I had two BTV server setups. Each had its own video folder and then had the other server's video folder mapped as a network drive. This worked fine for watching pre-recorded shows, but you couldn't view a show that was in the progress of recording.

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I really, really wish that Beyond TV had the networked-encoding concept built into its structure, like MythTV does (multiple servers, multiple clients, once common scheduling database.) This increases the complexity of multiple server scenarios, but it offers a TON of new capabilities, features, and savings.

[mapleleaf]

Oh yes, that is what I am doing right now, my biggest concern is to prevent my kids from erasing my Stargate shows accidentally. It’s so easy, you click Delete on any Link machine and selected file is gone forever no matter what BTV server it used to be on…

[nanook105]

Originally Posted by mapleleaf

Oh yes, that is what I am doing right now, my biggest concern is to prevent my kids from erasing my Stargate shows accidentally. It’s so easy, you click Delete on any Link machine and selected file is gone forever no matter what BTV server it used to be on…

A couple of thoughts:

• Do the kids always use the same TVs ? If so, you could have the links at those TVs auto start to a BTV server that does not have your folders, no way for them to delete what they can't see. I had mine set up this way when my kids were younger and it worked well. You/the adults would have to restart BTV link to get to your the server with your shows
• Set up security on the BTV server that has your folders so that the kids don't accidentally connect to it

Also, you can change the recording directory for a recording in the FSI

[mapleleaf]

"Also, you can change the recording directory for a recording in the FSI."

Strange, I have BTV 4.4 and I did not see that option… I need to look at it one more time tonight..

Thanks a lot. Until now I thought that I know all about available settings…

[nanook105]

It is in view and edit details for the recording job (Record to).

It's kinda funny because I seem to know about a lot of settings that I really never use. I attritbute it to beta testing (I can't resist trying something on a screen to see what it does), and looking for things when people ask questions in the forums. In any case, I'm glad I could help.