Desktop display @ 1920x1080 on 44" HDTV - making it easy to read ?

[Initri]

Hey smart people

As most of you know that have your computer desktops on your TV.. you know that Beyond TV looks great and everything is perfectly readable. However, if you exist BTV you know that the desktop looks like utter crap!

I've tried increasing the DPI to 120/150 (vs. 90, the default) but a lot of applications really aren't designed for this because they have fixed GUI's. Does anyone know of a good way to make the screen more readable ? Even at lower resolutions I've never been a fan of a computer display on the TV simply because of this problem. I'm blind enough as it is.

If anyone has any hints, I'd sure appreciate them. I'd like to be able to use my computer on my TV as more than just a TV player, but I find the text is just to hard to read from my couch.

Thanks,

- Initri

[gbranche]

The only solution I found when I had the BTV PC (i.e. HTPC) connected to a standard-def television was to use my iBook with VNC so that I could actually read the messages on the screen. Even then, I had the desktop resolution set to 640x480.

Since then, I've upgraded to a hi-def TV, and I find I don't use VNC quite so much any more (if at all).

That's the best I can suggest...

[Initri]

Oh I have the high def TV, 44" LCD.. the picture is great, except the resolution is so high it makes reading things impossible from a distance. Not to mention it still doesn't look great up close, possibly due to scan rate issues. Increasing the DPI makes things readable, but messes up programs.

- Matthew

[ChadCapeland]

What kind of HDTV is it? And what is the native resolution?

We have a 1080p LCD display at work, and when we turned on Cleartype, it was a pleasure to use. But that won't work for most HDTV's.

- Chad

[kramsauer]

If I get a HDTV, can I throw up a low resolution (800x600?) and read it from my couch? Anyone have experience with this?

[Fonceur]

As stated in the original message, it depends on which applications you will be using... Personnally, I use 200% customed fonts with a 1808 x 1004 resolution and most things display properly. The "missing codecs" page of Zoom player and the LCDSmartie application are examples of things that don't scale properly with those oversized fonts...

Reducing the resolution in itself might not help much, unless you are able to feed the native resolution of a projector or such...

[Rich A]

Originally Posted by kramsauer

If I get a HDTV, can I throw up a low resolution (800x600?) and read it from my couch? Anyone have experience with this?

For my case the key is to match the windows resolution with that of the displaying device. I use a projector that is native 800 x 600. So my desktop is set for that.

I'm looking at the screen that is something like 96 inches diag.? Over six feet wide. All the text and viewing is perfect. Both in BTV and when I (rarely) switch to the Windows desktop view.

To answer you question the last row in my home theater is about 17 feet from the screen. And it's perfectly viewable. You don't say what size screen you are using. That would be key.

Yes I watch a lot of 1920 x 1080 HD digital too. And it is outstanding. The difference between watching a 1920 x 1080 frame on a 800 x 600 screen versus a 1920 x 1080 frame on a 1920 x 1080 screen is not something (most) people would realize. Match the screen size of your PC frame to that of the original native resolution of the display device and you'll get the best that you can get under those restrictions.

People watching my 6 foot wide BTV High Def records are amazed and bedazzled. Even though the PJ is only a native 800x600. Also, it helps to properly set up the viewing device.

YOUR key is going to be dependant on how big the viewing screen will be. In the home theater world, the standard for minimal viewing distance is something like 2.5 times the screen width. (if I remember correctly).

[thundermax]

anyone ever tried software that zooms into the screen? I've seen this for older and/or visually impaired people and have been thinking about trying it for viewing PC on my TV. Right now I just get up and look at the monitor in my closet.

[kramsauer]

I guess my couch would be 7-8 feet from where the TV is going to be. I'm contemplating a 37-42 incher. I was looking at a 1080p, but if you're telling me that 1080 of vertical would be too detailed to really see anything, maybe I just save my money and get a lower res tv? Like 768?

[Ninety-9 SE-L]

I can't exactly afford an HDTV at the moment, but I'm trying to figure out what the problem is.

Assuming the monitor is 1080 and the windows resolution is set to 1920x1080, wouldn't the native resolution be clear and easy to read? I can understand the font might be small due to high resolution/large distance, but I can't imagine the display would look "bad" when it's at its native resolution. It only looks like utter crap when you're scaling up/down. You should definately run ClearType on any LCD monitor, try upping the font size.

Also, how are programs having trouble sizing to the resolution? No matter what the resolution, the window should size/stretch to the size of the monitor so long as the res is set correctly. If I wish to, I can span windows and apps across 2 1280x1024 monitors with no problems (except for any program that uses overlays, which is a limitation of the graphics accelerator).

One last question. Does BTV automatically resize when connected to a 1080p TV? From the discussions, it sounds like people are running windows at some random resolution (e.g 800x600), but when they go into BTV it automatically resizes to 1920x1080. Is this true? I always figured BTV ran at the same resolution as the OS. If so, how does it detect what resolution to use? I'm currently using a POS TV with COMPOSITE inputs :yuck:

[Fonceur]

Originally Posted by Ninety-9 SE-L

Assuming the monitor is 1080 and the windows resolution is set to 1920x1080, wouldn't the native resolution be clear and easy to read?

Well, that is the first problem, there are barely any HDTV that have a native resolution of 1920x1080... For example, LCD HDTV's tend to have a native resolution of something like 1366 x 768, which is not a standard resolution of Windows. The second issue is that since it is not a standard HDTV resolution, the HDTV might not even accept it, only taking resolutions like 1920x1080, 1280x720 and 720x480...

A third problem is that TV sets come with about 5% overscan. Which translate by 5% of the Windows' desktop being outside the viewing area of the TV... Front projectors and monitors don't have that problem.

So unless you do managed to feed the HDTV its native resolution with no overscan, you won't be able to match every pixels of the Windows' desktop with one pixel on the HDTV (1:1 mapping). This is why you get problems displaying text, as the pixels that should be defining each characters do not actually match the ones used on the HDTV...

Also, how are programs having trouble sizing to the resolution? No matter what the resolution, the window should size/stretch to the size of the monitor so long as the res is set correctly.

That is a problem with Windows, it does not stretch properly. Depending on the font size and resolution, you do not get the same result unless the programmer has gone out of his way to compensate for the scaling. Try using 200% fonts at high resolution and see for yourself. Let say on your development machine you put some line of text that is 21 pixels high at every 25 pixels, using the 8 points fonts at 800x600. Now use that same application at 1920x1080 with 200% fonts and the text will overlap, since the text won't be 21 pixels high anymore, but possibly 36 pixels or something... So you basically needs to re-measure your font size and reposition them accordingly.

Does BTV automatically resize when connected to a 1080p TV? From the discussions, it sounds like people are running windows at some random resolution (e.g 800x600), but when they go into BTV it automatically resizes to 1920x1080. Is this true?

If you use the full exclusive mode, then both resolution do not need to match, otherwise BTV will use the desktop resolution.