After x months, a public beta release is not good enough!

[srigby]

So, you've probably all read the June 2002 edition of SnapStream Announce by now...

What we've all been waiting on, the release of Quartz by end of June, has now become a public beta release - by late June / early July.

I paid for this product and have put a lot of my time into improving it through feedback and helping out the SnapStream community through forum participation...

...and now I get to do it all again!?!?!

You've spent all of your development resources on a product (ss.net) that a significant proportion of your customer base can't even use!!

Now it's up to us, your users and customers, to beta test Quartz for you !?!?!

Yay, a new version at last! Umm... I'd love to see a near-final list of what to expect in Quartz beta. If the benefits of convenience/power outweigh the risks (beta. nuff said), I think I'll move over to Quartz. I got the current version running perfectly on my computer now (recording 2 hours a day) but I may take a bit of a chance here.

[illianj]

Granted there are some things the current version doesn't do, but it is stable. Why push them to release a next version that is not completely stable? I'm perfectly happy to patiently await the next release while living under the limitations of 2.0... Heck, I'm already getting it for free when it is released just because I purchased 2.0...

[Dan Martin]

I'm with you srigby. This is rediculous. It's quite a shame, and I feel like a fool for investing my time and money in SS. Previously I felt it was annoying when Quartz didn't come out on time. Now I feel I've been lied to. After being told it would be out month after month, and having that date pushed back month after month, I'm just plain mad.

I bought SnapStream BECAUSE Quartz was due within a month according to the website. This product does not meet my needs, but it would within the month. I am beginning to think SnapStream has given basis for legal action. Class action lawsuits have been based on less.

This is just rediculous, and I wish I had spent my money on ShowShifter.

[Scott McNay]

Have you sued Microsoft yet for the same thing? They keep pushing their deadlines back, AND they only rarely offer free upgrades.

Programming is still an art; the only programs that can be held to a schedule are those that are sufficiently trivial that few would be interested.

--Scott.

[Jason Bottjen]

How about because they do not patch or fix things in the current version? Seems like a good reason to me.

If we have to wait until the next version for bug fixes, then YES, I want it sooner than later. And as a paying customer, I expect it to work properly too.

I'm not the one that told them, "Hey, don't worry about patches or fixing bugs/annoyances in your current product - just wait and roll them into the next version..."

I'm glad it is working to your satisfaction, but it isn't for a number of others.

And since we don't get patches or bug fixes, we push for the next version since it is supposed to address these issues.

Jason Bottjen

Originally posted by illianj:
*SNIP*Why push them to release a next version that is not completely stable?*SNIP*

[Jason Bottjen]

As a developer, I both mostly disagree with your statement.

Programming *is* still an art, granted. But MANY software products DO meet development schedules with the targeted quality.

Typically it is more a matter of available resources vs the complexity of the job you are doing. I completely disagree that only trivial programs can be held to schedules.

In fact, ALL programs should be held to schedules. At least all programs done for any reason other than for your own enjoyment. The schedules should be set appropriately for the complexity and manpower available for the product.

Continual missing of programming deadlines can only be explained by a few things:
1. Manpower allocation was changed, hence deadline HAS to adjust also
2. Schedule was developed without sufficient information on the project, so the date was bogus from day one (somewhat common)
3. Schedule was made with enough information, but by an inexperienced project planner (VERY common)
4. Schedule was PURPOSELY set too agressively as a motivational tool to get developers to work harder (also VERY common)

In a business environment, you HAVE to have schedules (and meet them). There are many business ramifications on this from marketing, investors, distribution, let alone the competition.

The biggest problem in this industry is that everyone THINKS it is so UNIQUE. It isn't. It should (and at some places DOES) adhere to the same sound business practices and fundamentals that any other product development/production environment does.

Jason Bottjen

Originally posted by Scott McNay:
Have you sued Microsoft yet for the same thing? They keep pushing their deadlines back, AND they only rarely offer free upgrades.

Programming is still an art; the only programs that can be held to a schedule are those that are sufficiently trivial that few would be interested.

--Scott.

[DigitalMad]

I’ve got to thank you babies for the quality entertainment. This is the same crying I read before version 2 of SS came out.

If the small purchase price of SS was SO important to you, why didn't you do more research before buying it? For those of you that can't get the software to work at all (read: owners of ATI hardware), I am really sorry! But for those of you that are complaining about features, what do you think this is, Heaven?? Creating software isn’t about miracles - this is about hard work. You want a new version with the fancy new features? Then let them develop it!!!

By the way, I've spent some time on the “show shifter” site and that product is not perfect! Far from it! Besides, apples and oranges here.

I hope the people at SnapStream don't get too turned off by your complaining. I love their product, and I am happy to watch it mature even more!

Originally posted by Dan Martin:
within the month. I am beginning to think SnapStream has given basis for legal action. Class action lawsuits have been based on less.

This is just rediculous, and I wish I had spent my money on ShowShifter.[/QB]

[Scott McNay]

I notice that you didn't comment on my "sue Microsoft" statement. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Apparently, you don't work for Microsoft, else they'd always ship on time. Sometimes they do ship on time, or only a little late, but they do so by tossing out features. It's a shame that the largest company in the world is swamped with inexperienced project planners.

As for "inexperienced project planner", that has a good chance of being a manager who has no experience with programming, and I feel sorry for anyone who has to work for such a person.

The problem with short schedules as a "motivational tool" is that this may cause corners to be cut that shouldn't have been, and thus result in a crappy product.

I would MUCH prefer that the SS team push the scherdule back than release a crappy product.

--Scott.

[ June 20, 2002, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Scott McNay ]

[Scott McNay]

SS works fine for me, especially with the ATI patch.

Oops, sorry, I guess I shouldn't mention the ATI patch, since the SS folk don't do patches, according to someone or other.

--Scott.

Originally posted by DigitalMad:
For those of you that can't get the software to work at all (read: owners of ATI hardware), I am really sorry!

[srigby]

Scott, of course no one is talking about sueing here. I'm not even referring to the technology aspects of what's going on here.

But as a way to run your business, you're just asking for a big fat nasty wake-up call.

What other industry would tolerate such poor performance?

And Jason, about Programming still being an art form - you better not leave university, because you might find that in the real world it's just a business like everything else.

[Jason Bottjen]

Me? Nah, I've been out of university for quite a while now.

I guess that anytime you essentially have a blank canvas (like a program starts out as) that there is always a little art involved. ;-D. That doesn't change the reality of business.

Jason Bottjen

Originally posted by srigby:
Scott, of course no one is talking about sueing here. I'm not even referring to the technology aspects of what's going on here.

But as a way to run your business, you're just asking for a big fat nasty wake-up call.

What other industry would tolerate such poor performance?

And Jason, about Programming still being an art form - you better not leave university, because you might find that in the real world it's just a business like everything else.

[Dan Martin]

I’ve got to thank you babies for the quality entertainment.

Not going to justify these types of comments with a response, except to say "Grow up".

If the small purchase price of SS was SO important to you, why didn't you do more research before buying it?

Did you read my post? As I mentioned, I bought SnapStream because Quartz was promised within a month and it had the features I wanted. If I hadn't done my research, I would not now feel misled by the mis-information I found through that research.

Have you sued Microsoft yet for the same thing?

I'm certainly not a Microsoft proponent, and I certainly don't care for the way they do business. But I can honestly say I've never paid for a Microsoft product based on a promise of improvement within a month, and then have that promise turn into a lie. And then had that same promise repeated month after month, and the promise fall through every month. I'm not saying Microsoft has never done it to anyone at anytime, nor would I be suprised if they had. However, it's never happened to me.

Either way, very few companies lie to their customers this many consecutive time. SnapStream says the beta will be available within a couple of weeks, and I'll be shocked if that statement comes true. After so much crying wolf, I won't believe anything from SnapStream until I see it.

[coolchip]

Ditto Scott and Digitalmad.
Im more than happy to wait. For me, life does not revolve around the release date of a piece of software.
Im a patient man....

[Scott McNay]

Businesses change their plans, have their plans changed for them, go away, get swallowed, experience minor difficulties such as "9-11", and so forth. As far as I'm concerned, if something isn't available yet, it's foolish to plan for it. I didn't buy PVS because of what was supposed to be in Quartz, I bought it because of what was already available. At the time, the competition either didn't have a demo, didn't do what I wanted, or just plain sucked.

I don't believe ANYTHING until I see it or otherwise hear that it actually exists. Until then, it's just a rumor, as far as I'm concerned.

--Scott.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan Martin:

I won't believe anything from SnapStream until I see it.