Future cable changes & analog tuners

[Rich A]

Hi all,

I don't want to debate when, how or if the cable companies are going to be switching to 100 percent digital in the near future.

Rather I'd like to "discuss" how this will affect those of us who are running multiple analog TV tuners (ie Happauge PVR-x50s). I figure we have two choices.

1. Rent multiple converter boxes from our cable company and feed the S-Video to our existing PVR-x50. I believe we will have to feed the converted analog video to our tuner cards and then also feed the audio to our computer audio input. Normally both are included in the rf analog and decoded by the tuner. I have seen many problems with audio sync when using separate video and audio inputs like that. Just a thought and/or worry.

2. Hope that there becomes affordable and reliable replacements for our analog tuners .. read - digital cable (QAM) capable tuners. The down side of this is that SS will have to also support the cable digital line-up for all the various cable feeds (which I have faith that SS can and will handle). Plus we will have to find new uses for our out-dated analog cards.

Remember .. this thread isn't about if, when or how the cable companies will convert to 100 percent digital.

Rather, it's about the technical aspects and solutions we may or may not encounter. What's your take ??

[nanook105]

Actually, I'm a little foggy on the implications. My cable company switched to digital several years ago, but I can still connect a cable directly to my tuner and get all of the "basic" channels. Are you saying that there is another step in their process where the basic channels going to become digital and I will need a cable box/converter for basic channels ?

[bnflaherty]

Apparently their plan is to remove the analog channels -- to make more room for additional digital channels...

[Rich A]

Originally Posted by nanook105

Actually, I'm a little foggy on the implications. My cable company switched to digital several years ago, but I can still connect a cable directly to my tuner and get all of the "basic" channels. Are you saying that there is another step in their process where the basic channels going to become digital and I will need a cable box/converter for basic channels ?

And yes, I believe the final date is like 2009 or something. I know that all the analog "off the air" stations MUST be fully digital by then. (the date has changed several times) That part is not IF but rather WHEN. When that happens then there will be no more analog OTA period.

But this thread is not about the OTA TV.

And I'm a little vague as to how that affects the cable companies. But I think that is coming also. It only stands to reason. Their analog signals are just taking up too much of their needed bandwidth and the digital stuff (if working well) is not subject to analog quality issues. So whether or not the FCC mandates CABLE to be 100 percent digital down the road isn't of concern. I believe it's in the cable companies best interest to do so with or without FCC mandates.

I know several of my favorite analog stations are now only available on digital here. The cable companies seem to be moving/converting them little by little. I think the "handwriting is on the wall" ... or at least on the screen. I just like to prepare for the worst and be covered.

[Rich A]

For example .. (I'll get the technical end of this gong)

Which would give us the final better quality recorded video?

A true "digital tuner" ? Or feeding the S-video from a tuner box to our current mpeg encoders?

I "think" the digital tuner might blow away the S-video. As it is my thought that a future digital cable ready PC tuner is going to work like our current OTA digital tuners. No encoding required. Just write the transport stream as found directly to the hard drive. If this is so, then we may be looking at "inexpensive" digital/cable tuners as they wouldn't need any mpeg encoding hardware or firmware. This might be a "good" thing no?

Using the S-video output of a cable box, I think would produce far less quality final mpeg files. Because the original pristine digital signal will be decoded to an S-video signal and then EN-coded by our PVR-x50 back to an mpeg format. I just don't think it will compare at all to dropping the original mpeg transport stream directly to the hard drive. The question is exactly what is a QAM capable digital cable stream? Is it like an OTA transport stream?

[bnflaherty]

Frankly -- yeah -- the direct feed Should give the better quality -- since it would be simiar to HD Transport files...

[bnflaherty]

this should shed some light...

http://www.roscor.com/resources_whit...verQuam%20.pdf

[ZetaVu]

Actually, only over the air analog is destined for destruction by 2009, at least by government mandate. Complete elimination of analog through cable or satelite, well that is up to them. I think a lot will depend on new televisions, and output formats on cable boxes vs things like cable cards.

Right now with Directv, I output from my setbox to s-video input. I assume eventually s-video will get phased out, and if M$ and MPAA has their way, so will composite, so you'd be forced to use DRM controlled HDMI. I would assume in the meantime, some form of composite or dvi out could be captured with next generation cards out of settop boxes, and of course there is all the hype with cablecards (which I hope also applies to directv since I despise my cable company, with the exception of their internet service which is second to none) and all the limitations that has to offer.

[D Beetle]

Well... It looks like the ATI tuner with Cablecard port is closer to reality.

Take a look at this Anandtech review ...

[ZetaVu]

Anyone know if this card works with directv or just digital cable?

[Fonceur]

That one is only for Cable, but as reported on HTPC News, DirectTV has its own deal with Intel:


http://home.businesswire.com/portal/...ewID=news_view

[cosiz]

I remember reading something a few months ago (I think in the WSJ?) about cable companies working on switched technologies which would send only the requested stream to the end user, rather than the full spectrum of streams for all channels. I tried to search for the story, but bugmenot doesn't work anymore on wsj.com. :-(

In a switched model, I guess there would be a simple decoder box for each television; each receiving a unique stream.

I think it stands to reason that if the cable companies could
save enough bandwidth, they could also go to a system that was entirely on-demand. That would eliminate the need for a tuner but brings a new set of problems, like scheduling.

But I'm not sure I understand why using the coax cable output of the cable boxes isn't the best way to input to the Hauppauge cards?

Cheers,
Bryan

[tenax]

Originally Posted by cosiz

But I'm not sure I understand why using the coax cable output of the cable boxes isn't the best way to input to the Hauppauge cards?

Cheers,
Bryan

it just isn't as good quality as a component or svideo solution from a quality standpoint, bryan.

[thundermax]

Originally Posted by ZetaVu

over the air analog is destined for destruction by 2009

What happens to those of us who watch over-the-air TV? Will we still get over-the-air highdef or will we be required to subscribe to a digital cable service?

[Rich A]

Originally Posted by thundermax

What happens to those of us who watch over-the-air TV? Will we still get over-the-air highdef or will we be required to subscribe to a digital cable service?

That's one of the reasons why I chose to build up an over-the-air digital tuner system for my Snapstream PVR. The "digital" OTA is going to replace the current analog OTA. There will be no changes other than the format. You will still (as you are now) be able to view all the digital content broadcast by the terrestrial station for free. The key word is "digital". Which includes all the various definitions .. 480 720 and 1080. If you are fortunate to be in an area where you can pick up several major networks or their affiliates, it's great. If you are currently using an "analog only" TV for OTA analog, you should be able to get a set-top digital tuner that will down convert the digital OTA to your analog TV's input. All TVs after a certain date MUST include digital tuners or they won't pass the Fcc's type acceptance. I also read something about the FCC requiring STB tuners etc. for OTA digital to offer a substantial discount or rebate to those who only had analog TVs when the "change over" became fact. These OTA digital receivers are available now. Most are unfortunately over 200 bucks, and average around 350.

There ARE also some areas of the country where you can subscribe for a monthly fee and receive a few of the cable feeds "OTA". I believe one such area is in Arizona and it will probably be spreading. That, (which you pay for) and the other local free OTA networks might help where cable isn't available. Still the only way to get "all" the available cable stuff (like HBO, ESPN etc.) is via cable. (or SAT.)