The not too distant future of pvrs?

[merrypig]

Ok, without getting to much into the competitor has this etc etc, I'm going to assume that folks have seen Bill Gate's discourse on the future for MCE?

In particular two comments caught my eye.

#1/ A partnership between MS and directv to get sat video onto MCE. Presumably this will mean some EPG interaction? So if MS can wrangle a deal with directv to allow this, can SS? It'd be a lot nicer than having to scrape the directv website like I've been dabbling with...

#2/ CableCard. A way to get HD video directly onto a pc just by inserting an access card. Looks like someone opened the door for a PC based cable access card allowing the HD video to come straight in without being recaptured. (much like OTA).


Two notable steps that could shake up how video gets into a PVR surely? The STB seemingly being removed from the equation in favour of direct digital feeds into the PC. So how do we get BTV ahead of the game ?

[ZetaVu]

That will be a tough one, I assume M$ is going out of their way to get a monopoly (did I say that out loud?) on software PVR's, as truth be told, that seems to be the only future growth potential for the new operating system. I see them trying to squeeze out all PVR and htpc software over the next couple of years like they did or tried with internet browser, media player, and of course their office suite, and are trying with spyware and antivirus.

So, question is can SS or any other software vendor work out a deal to get direct feeds from directv or cable? All comes down to whether or not it would be a secure format and who controls what's done with it. If it is merely a format that restricts copying etc, then any software should be able to work with it. IF it is mroe specific then you might only be able to do it with vista if M$ has their way (and you'll probably pay every time you view).

By the way, before anyone gets too bummed out, M$ may be the dominant player but they are far from the best. Regarding their conquests, I do use office but I also use open office. As for their windows addons, I disabled them and use opera, Zoom player (as well as snapstream) and Comcast provides free MCafee firewall and antivirus. I don't think anyone not owned by M$ really wants to be controlled by them. Snapstream has been very successful bundling with capture cards, I think their primary focus should be seeking out mfg that will make cablecards, and directv cards, and finding ways to get on the inside track.

By the way, of all the M$ alternatives, Snapstream is the only one I needed to purchase, but no complaints at all since it is still better than anything M$ or the competition has put out, yet.

[merrypig]

Might I suggest, that we ignore what MS might or might not be trying to do, and just talk about what SS _could_ do.

[btvfreak]

My thoughts are here.

[werb]

I'm sure we all would want to know what SS is going to do with the upcoming cable cards like this one http://anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2662&p=2

SS will need to have some answers to keep people happy and feeling good about the direction they are going as it's obvious MS has their plans now on the table.


SS Please don't keep your loyal customers in the dark with your plans. We all feel like we deserve it

[merrypig]

deserve? no. For me it's just idle curiosity.

[fanbanlo]

about next MCE...
MS Key notes, start watching at 58:00 mark~

http://www.microsoft.com/events/exec...billgates.mspx

[fanbanlo]

The more I watch... The more I like Snapstream BeyondTV, because it is much simplier and works just as great if not better!

[ZetaVu]

Not quite, I think the new media interface has some distinct improvements.

1. x-y plane, you scroll up and down through the menu then left and right for the submenu.
2. ability to scroll menu on top of HD playback
3. album view, and ability to sort albums and view albums INSTANTLY (none of this reloading images crap like beyond media oh god will you fix that already!) and sort album covers by artist, year, etc.
4. the fact that scrolling is sideways on many views to take advantage of the wide screens
5. THe interactivity of HD content, they are highlighting the HD DVD but I am hoping that the future of all HD content (OTA and cable/satelite) will involve a link to that channels webpage through the internet interface, so you can do that kind of real time interactivity while watching a show, specifically if it has been pre-recorded. Ideally, any recorded show should have a scene calculator on that channels website for jumping etc, but this is a content provider issue, not software, YET

THey talk about doing all their streaming into other computers or xbox 360's, again trying to corner the market. I think any DRM recording or whatever should be streamable through two stages, either on network to any hardwired/wireless device, or through internet through a secure connection, so say I am on the road and want to log into my home network, the software has a secure btvlinkish connection (preferably one I can do with just a password on someone else's computer) to link and stream content. The DRM issue will be somewhat restrictive to avoid mass piracy, but there should be nothing stopping me from securely connecting to my computer and streaming (or downloading) to another computer for watching.

And of course voice control, which I don't think was discussed.

I still like the idea of using a dpa to control and interact the computer, streaming low resolution images or menus to the pda and letting you interact through that.

Either way, the vista media pc looks like a force to rekon with, probably not till 2007. QUestion is what can Snapstream do between now and 2007 to convince people 1. upgrading is not necessary, stick with XP as long as you can, and 2, if you upgrade to Vista, go for the cheapest system and use btv/bm (and integration is essential at this point, end of discussion) instead of getting the higher end vistas that have media center.

Of course the ultimate solution is to eliminate the need for an operating system in the first place. The closest available is of course linux. Sadly when the M$ monopoly refuses to support XP anymore, the world either has to revolt or go Vista. How many 98 users out there these days (beyond simple office machines?) As much as Snapstream wants to stick with windows, I think they need to see the writing on the wall that in the next 3 years, windows will incorporate media center into almost all distros and phase out the need for snapstream. Of course you'll be paying probably $200/computer for each legal copy of vista...

[flavius]

Originally Posted by merrypig

Might I suggest, that we ignore what MS might or might not be trying to do, and just talk about what SS _could_ do.

Comply with the prevailing DRM system.

[Eric3a]

Seems to me Snapstream has a history of using M$ technology anyway. Wasn't it one of the prevailing crticism way back when under BTV 2?
Unfortunately -as I wish there was more competition and I am not a fan of DRM- it seems using the M$ pathways to compliance with Vista is key to Sanpstream's continued development.

I wasn't aware the current EPG supplier doesn't get DirectTV data. I hope there is a way for Snapstream to get their supplier to include that.

If M$ opens APIs (which I think they have to do unless they want to be sued for monopolistic behavior as in Europe and WTO) then Snapstream I am sure will base their upcoming soft on those.
Direct HD stream capture is the logical way to go, so CableCard is a technology that Snapstream needs to keep an eye on.
Not a programmer, but wouldn't be surprised if data stream capture was relatively easy to do once Cable Card lets you acces the stream.

I really hope DRM doesn't kill the essence of BTV. Ie record what you want, when you want and play it when you want where you want.
Maybe one of the reason I don't see HD as such a great "progress". Have to pay tons more for potentially less use than what we currently have.

Eric

[flavius]

Originally Posted by Eric3a

..I really hope DRM doesn't kill the essence of BTV. Ie record what you want, when you want and play it when you want where you want.
Eric

Limiting that severly is the essence of DRM.

[Eric3a]

Yes you are right and that really bugs me.

One of the ideas floating around is that DRM will protect the HD content, but let you save SD copies all you want. Personally since I don't care all that much for HD anyways, that would be an acceptable compromise. After all I don't even have 1 HD TV, let alone many.

I don't see myself having 6 HDTVs in my house anytime soon, so SD will work for many years for me.

I guess what I am also wondering is if it will still be possible to showsqueeze HD DRM to DivX or other common codec somehow.

My guess is worst case scenario, we'll have stand alone recorders (COWON A2 or Archos for exemple) to record in the non-DRM format we want. The market demans will be there for the ability to do what we want, and the solutions will hopefully exist.
Eric

[ZetaVu]

"I wasn't aware the current EPG supplier doesn't get DirectTV data. I hope there is a way for Snapstream to get their supplier to include that."

We get directv data, we're talking about a cablecard that works with directv to be able to record/pause directv hdtv.

You can showsqueeze HD streams to divx with the latest autogn (I use xvid, that works fine). What you get definitely isn't HD anymore, but I believe better than squeezing an sd recording because of better initial quality.

DRM, the way m$ and copyright law see it, is supposed to restrict recording but by law should not stop you from making a personal copy of HD quality for your own use. Of course, tell that to the DVD people and their css technology. I'm still not sure if there is a "legal" method of making personal copiies of dvds, I think there are several "legal" software packages out there, which means they have not been sued yet.

DRM is bad in its nature because it takes the ability to decide away from the consumer, to record what you want and how to do it. We are an intelligent people and amongst the rights quarunteed by the constitution are our rights to decide whether or not to break the law. That may sound stupid but look at it this way.

With DRM, the MPAA can decide to not allow us to make any HD copy of a particular movie, which according to copyright law we have the right to. At this point they have stretched if not broken the law but we are powerless to do anything about it, except to use some illegal means to make our legal copies. This is the same with DVD copies, we can use an illegal decss to copy dvd's, the copying being legal but the reverse engineering decss use illegal. Hence, we then are forced to do an illegal act in order to do a legal one, which I think is an arguable case to invalidate the millenium copyright act and DRM in general.

Sadly, such legal arguments would have to overcome the political process, and all the deep pocketed lobyist and their concerted effort to tax the air we breathe.

That being said, I think the most important thing snapstream can do is do whatever it takes to get Directv or cable HDTV into the computer, via cablecard or whatever. Once that is done, then DRM issues can be sorted out in the spirit of American nature, and by that I refer to the precedents and traditions that founded or country, our freedoms, and our way of life. You might refer to a tea party we had a couple centuries ago...

[merrypig]

What we don't get is the DirecTV _PPV_ data.