How much graphics card do you need for HDTV?

[Harold]

Maybe this is premature, since BTV 4.0 isn't even in Beta release yet, but what is the minimum graphics card requirement for HDTV? I have eagerly been buying and installing hardware for HDTV. I went with the Avermedia A180 capture card and a CM 4228 antenna and am now getting OTA HDTV in my PC using Graphedit.

Most things work ok. I haven't gotten AC3 audio to behave right (dropouts and sync errors) but my concern of the moment is that maybe my video card doesn't have enough horsepower. I've noticed on CBS and NBC HDTV programs that I get a sort of "shimmer" during horizontal pans. I think these are 1080i and therefore highest DTV bandwidth. It's different, but somewhat similar to what I used to see with SDTV until I found the magic combination of decoders and video card settings to stop the problem. Another way to describe it is the DTV equivalent of the crawler jerkiness that might be seen on a news channel where there was a deinterlace issue.

I found an MCE article that suggests the following is the minimum requirement for a video card with HDTV:

Video adapter with 128-MB DDR video memory with 128-bit interface; an AGP8x interface or PCI express; video memory bandwidth of 10 GB per second or greater; support for MPEG-2 iDCT acceleration.

I'm thinking my ATI 9600 may not be up to the task with respect to the bandwidth. I probably won't run out and get another card until BTV 4 is out to see if maybe its just an issue with the lashup that I am temporarily using in Graphedit.

Thoughts from the experts?

[Rich A]

Originally Posted by Harold

Maybe this is premature, since BTV 4.0 isn't even in Beta release yet, but what is the minimum graphics card requirement for HDTV? I have eagerly been buying and installing hardware for HDTV. I went with the Avermedia A180 capture card and a CM 4228 antenna and am now getting OTA HDTV in my PC using Graphedit.

Most things work ok. I haven't gotten AC3 audio to behave right (dropouts and sync errors) but my concern of the moment is that maybe my video card doesn't have enough horsepower. I've noticed on CBS and NBC HDTV programs that I get a sort of "shimmer" during horizontal pans. I think these are 1080i and therefore highest DTV bandwidth. It's different, but somewhat similar to what I used to see with SDTV until I found the magic combination of decoders and video card settings to stop the problem. Another way to describe it is the DTV equivalent of the crawler jerkiness that might be seen on a news channel where there was a deinterlace issue.

I found an MCE article that suggests the following is the minimum requirement for a video card with HDTV:

Video adapter with 128-MB DDR video memory with 128-bit interface; an AGP8x interface or PCI express; video memory bandwidth of 10 GB per second or greater; support for MPEG-2 iDCT acceleration.

I'm thinking my ATI 9600 may not be up to the task with respect to the bandwidth. I probably won't run out and get another card until BTV 4 is out to see if maybe its just an issue with the lashup that I am temporarily using in Graphedit.

Thoughts from the experts?

I also have an ATI 9600 Radeon. Mine has 256 Memory and I specifically bought it as it was one of the few I could find that met the requirements but had passive cooling. (no fan)

Mine works fine in HD. It's coupled with the ATI HDTV Wonder. I doubt you'll have any problems. Most important requirements are that it be dx-9 compliant. Most newer video cards are and I believe any ATI Radeon 9500 and up, or Nvidia 6000 series video cards will work fine.

[Harold]

Maybe it's an ATI configuration issue or the decoder that I am using in Graphedit. Like you, I got because it is passively cooled. As I mentioned, the problem is only apparent in panning scenes of 1080i programs. It's not a reception issue. What decoder does the All in Wonder use? How is Catalyst (Deinterlacing) set up for you?

[Rich A]

Hi Harold,

I really can't discuss the HD specifics other than within the confines of my experience with Windows XP MCE 2005. I have an NDA with SS as a beta tester. All I can say is I "don't" use Graphedit, am using the latest ATI Catylist, the ATI HDTV Wonder tuner, and for decoding am using SnapStream's advanced decoder.

Wish I could say more .. check the SS Blog on their talks about the HD capability of their new 4.0 version of BTV, which should be coming somewhere down the road.

[Harold]

Well, I wasn't trying to poke into the BTV 4.0 piece of it. I understand that's not open for discussion just yet. I was curious about the deinterlace setting (adaptive, motion adaptive, etc.) in Catalyst and the version you were using. Sounds like your using 5.9.

If it's working for you, maybe I should just be patient. The Graphedit lashup was just to get me started and verify my antenna setup. I don't expect to use it long term. I had so many problems with the Avermedia XP application for the A180 that I went to Graphedit.

[Rich A]

Originally Posted by Harold

Well, I wasn't trying to poke into the BTV 4.0 piece of it. I understand that's not open for discussion just yet. I was curious about the deinterlace setting (adaptive, motion adaptive, etc.) in Catalyst and the version you were using. Sounds like your using 5.9.

If it's working for you, maybe I should just be patient. The Graphedit lashup was just to get me started and verify my antenna setup. I don't expect to use it long term. I had so many problems with the Avermedia XP application for the A180 that I went to Graphedit.

No problem Harold. I certainly understand. I can tell you that I've been switching from the ATI Radeon to an Nvidia 6600. As far as over all quality and playback I think both do just fine with HD. I don't use the 3d acel. option in SS myself. I prefer the Overlay. I've been switching between the two cards trying to troubleshoot a problem totally unrelated to the area we are talking about. Actually it's a problem with my projector and the ATI card not liking it. Long story .. and I've found a "work-around" which is very strange. What happens is that the HTPC runs 24/7 and is never shut off. But of course I turn off the PJ in the home theater when not in use. It seems that when ever I turn on the PJ (and I'm using the PJ's VGA input) it shifts the screen to one side. So I go into the ATI set up and reposition the screen so it's centered. Watch TV and all is fine and when done shut off the PJ. The NEXT time I turn on the PJ, the screen is shifted again. I believe there is some kind of load or interaction between my PJ and the ATI video card where every time I turn on the PJ, the ATI card can't figure out what the display device is and it just gets screwed up. The Nvidia card doesn't have this problem.

I get around it by first turning on the AV AMP/Receiver, then waiting 2 seconds and then turning on the PJ. If I do that, the ATI card brings up a perfectly centered screen every time. I have a programable remote that allows me to put scene like setups into it so this was easy. Why first turning on the AV equipment before I turn on the PJ works .. is a mystery to me. The AV components are only being used for the surround sound. The video goes from the ATI video card directly to the PJ. Sigh ..

I think I like the over-all quality of the ATI HD display a little better than the Nvidia card. But I'm really nit-picking at that. Most would probably not see any difference. However the Nvidia drivers and utilities are much more robust and less troublesome and seem more "polished".

Maybe some of that info will give you some ideas. Good luck.

[Michael R]

I have a Radeon 9600 SE on a Athlon 2000+ and it works just fine with HDTV in Overlay mode, even though the Athlon is below-spec for HDTV. (You are supposed to be 2.4GHz or faster). 3D mode is a little choppy. I picked the 9600 because it supports DX9, it's fanless, and you can get used ones cheap on Ebay.

Initially it had performance problems, some choppiness during playback. On AVSforum.com I found out my Gigabyte motherboard had a BIOS with a bug that prevented the Radeon 9600 from using AGP in 8x mode. A BIOS update fixed that and everything works smooth now.

Now I use BeyondTV 3 SE with two HDTV tuners, a Fusion 3 Gold and Vbox Cateye USB tuners.

[rakeshagrawal]

Here's what will go out as the system requirements for ATSC/HDTV in Beyond TV 4:

• 2.4 GHz or above Intel or AMD processor
• 512MB Ram
• ATI Radeon 9550 or NVIDIA GeForce 5200 or above video card. Failure to use a proper video card will result in a choppy picture.
• Windows XP (Home or Pro) with Service Pack 2. SP2 is a requirement, not a recommendation.
• Sufficient hard drive space. A typical HD show is about 9 GB for one hour of TV. This is up to 8 times more usage than traditional MPEG-2. For normal usage, 200 GB of free space is a practical minimum.
• Compatible ATSC digital / HDTV tuner card

[HomeyFour]

Just out of curiosity, why is SP2 a requirement?

[Rich A]

Originally Posted by HomeyFour

Just out of curiosity, why is SP2 a requirement?

I can't say but I can tell you even the Micro$oft MCE requires SP-2 for HD operation. Back when I was playing with the MS thing there were some 3rd party utilities to work with the MS TS, and they all also required SP-2.

[Kilrsat]

The short answer is that DirectX 9.0c from Windows XP SP2 is "special" and not actually the same as DirectX 9.0c available for any other platform.

[rakeshagrawal]

I learned yesterday that we've done some optimizations that should allow us to lower the system requirements that I posted yesterday. We're still doing testing to figure out what they'll be lowered to.

[rakeshagrawal]

Here's where the system requirements for HDTV stand at the moment (hot off the presses):

- Intel® Pentium®, AMD Athlon™ processor at 1.7 GHz or higher

- 512 MB Ram

- ATI Radeon 9550 or NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 or Higher

- 40 GB of available hard drive space (this will allow 5 hours of HD Recording)

- BDA Compliant ATSC Capture Card

- Windows XP Service Pack 2

[dallas2727]

Originally Posted by rakeshagrawal

Here's where the system requirements for HDTV stand at the moment (hot off the presses):

- Intel® Pentium®, AMD Athlon™ processor at 1.7 GHz or higher

When you say 1.7 GHZ, do you mean 1.7 on an intel but only a Athlon "1700" on AMD? Amd's run at lower GHZ as compared to intel, despite producing the same performance.

Or would that AMD need a raw GHZ of 1.7 also?

[ChadCapeland]

Could we also get some hardware guidelines for Link machines?

Also, what kind of networking bandwidth do we need?

Lastly, will BTV4 save .ts, or does it have to rasterize and recompress to something like .wmv or .avi? If the latter, will BTV4 automatically work in the default frame format, 1080i, 720p, or whatnot?

- Chad