nVidia new nVTV Dual Tuner

[SHS]

Well it look like nVidia going give Hauppauge & ATI run for it money
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/PureVideo/
nVidia got smart and switch to ViXS

[pdaughe]

Cool, it's about time....., ATI has been walking away with this market. It seems EVERYBODY is selling MCE machines with the TV Wonder Elite.

I wonder when Beyond TV will support this tuner? So far Snapstream has been UNABLE to provide support for dual 550 Pros (TV Wonder Elites). I suppose it depends on how hard Nvidia pushes their own InstantMedia....

I AM concerned, long term, about the Snapstream products if they are limited to multiple tuner support only for inferior TV tuners and capture devices. ATI, and now Nvidia, are leading the way.

I'm REALLY glad to see ATI has some competition. Hauppauge, once the leader, has fallen SIGNIFICANTLY behind the game (sorry, but until you've actually SEEN this technology in play, you don't know what you're missing). Note that Nvidia's presentation compared NVTV Dual primarily with the TV Wonder Elite.

It appears the NvTV Dual Tuner may provide better picture quality at a lower bitrate or with a weak tuner signal than the 550 Pro, but Nvidia has the same problem Hauppauge has when it comes to the tuner. There is NO comparison between a digital and analog tuner when it comes to smoothness of operation. I can ALMOST surf channels (approx. 1 second channel change)with no momentary video or audio distortion when tuning to a new channel. An analog tuner is NEVER going to be able to do that.

Nonetheless, I would gladly switch to the NvTV tuner just because of ATI's unwillingness to support dual 550 Pros under Windows XP, and their refusal to post that restriction on their sight.

Go Nvidia!

[merrypig]

Originally Posted by pdaughe

An analog tuner is NEVER going to be able to do that.

I wouldn't normally respond, but the use of capitals threw down a gauntlet.

Do you remember using a regular tv set and how fast you could change the channels then. Care to guess whether that was an analog or digital tuner?

[MannyTC]

Is this the card you guys are talking about? I have had one of these since June. Came with an HTPC system that I built at one of the Intel TST training classes for Intel Dealers. Is a kick butt system. Anyway, I have been patiently waiting for support in BTV for this card to really try it out. So far the quality from the tests that I have done has not been able to compare with 3 Hauppauge PVR-250s in my main BTV rig. More pics of the card, rig and nVidia tuner spec sheet are HERE

[SHS]

Yes that the one MannyTC say is there any change you could up some recording from it in reg MPEG2 format to ftp.shspvr.com/incoming/ folder
MannyTC there always GraphEdit you know and you can do compare that way you know.
But need use the Womble MPEG-VCR Editor to take RAW BMP screens shot and save uncomp jpg or no more then 2% comp.

[boomerang]

Originally Posted by pdaughe

I AM concerned, long term, about the Snapstream products if they are limited to multiple tuner support only for inferior TV tuners and capture devices.

Why is this card superior to Hauppauge's PVR-xxx series?

Inquiring minds want to know...

[SHS]

Let's see some Filtering
Integrated adaptive 3D comb filter
Speckle (analog) noise reduction
Image edge rectification
Word has that ViXS chip can also dbl as Transcoding in REALtime.

[SHS]

pdaughe you have good point there but don't count your chichen be for they hatch becuase Hauppauge dose have something in the works but real Q that come to mind are there going miss the technology boat and you rigth Hauppauge was once the leader and has fallen behind the game.
But as you said the next real Q is how Compatible is it under DirectShow for 3rdparty support next how Compatible is the A/V stream with 3rdparty tools.

[pdaughe]

Originally Posted by merrypig

I wouldn't normally respond, but the use of capitals threw down a gauntlet.

Do you remember using a regular tv set and how fast you could change the channels then. Care to guess whether that was an analog or digital tuner?

Ah, one should be careful about the words ALWAYS, NEVER, etc. etc. There are few things in life to which there are no exceptions. It's been nearly twenty years since I've owned a TV with an analog tuner, but I suppose there exists some high-end analog tuner that could be competitive with a digital tuner. In open-mindness (and wisdom) I withdraw the word "NEVER."

I do prefer the way a digital tuner tunes to a channel quickly and without fluctuations in the video or sound. In fact, the slower channel change (due to what is going on with Live TV, not the tuner) is the only way I think someone could discern Live TV from real TV.

Silicon tuners with digital circuitry (i.e. digital tuners) are technically capable of higher capture quality and faster channel switching, plain and simple. This technology should not be confused with the layman's definition of a "digital tuner" as one that is capable of processing a digital signal.

The point is Nvidia and ATI have upped the ante considerably. By this time next year, I expect we will see MCE-certified motherboards with digital tuners and capture chips on-board. Sadly, those motherboards, just like the ATI and Nvidia tuner cards, most likely will not be "Snapstream-certified".

ATI and Nvidia have introduced new technology, and this technology is indeed superior to the older technology. I love the Snapstream products. I love the extensible architecture of the products. I love how responsive the plug-in authors are. I've even had four different individuals over to my home and "sold them" on Beyond TV and Beyond Media. In my opinion, the Snapstream products are presently the best.

The operative word is "presently." Let's look downriver. Is it a "given" that Snapstream will be a dominant player in this market space? Will the company exists five years from now?

I believe it is fundamentally important for Snapstream to support the newer technologies. If multiple tuner support in Beyond TV is limited to just the older technology tuner cards, Windows MCE will not only become increasingly attractive, but a necessity. Hauppauge directly supports Beyond TV, apparently though, not ATI or Nvidia. ATI and Nvidia (and yes, even Hauppauge) are catering, in varying degrees, to Microsoft MCE. A quick glance at the vendor's Web site confirms this.

Snapstream has been willing, but unable to provide a solution to the audio cut-out problem with multiple ATI 550 Pros. That indeed IS a problem. I do trust Snapstream has given its best, but the only solution may lie with the driver. In other words, the question is: Is Snapstream being "muscled out" by Microsoft marketing and partnering stragegy? Why does Windows MCE sell for less than Windows XP Pro or the Snapstream multimedia solution?

I have witnessed over the years several companies that didn't "get it right" with respect to marketing strategy. Which is more important for Beyond TV 4? Support for high definition TV, Divx, or multiple tuner support for new technology tuner cards?

I don't know the answer to that question, nor is it my call.

What I do know is that we should do whatever we can to get Nvidia and ATI to provide drivers that support multiple tuners for other than Windows MCE.

In my opinion, every Snapstream user should (be able to) boast superior picture quality by exploiting the advanced hardware technology available TODAY. If the quality of the picture is inferior to that possible with MCE, the way I see it, everything else is in vain.

I have no axe to grind. I own two 550 Pros and not only "on paper" but based on my actual experience and comparison with a Hauppauge 150, the new technology is vastly superior to the old technology. However, like I said in my previous post, I'd dump both in favor of the Nvidia card, if and when Beyond TV supports it, simply because ATI refuses to provide multiple tuner driver support for other than Windows MCE. If Nvidia plays that game, all we can hope for is that Hauppauge leapfrogs the technology.

[boomerang]

Originally Posted by pdaughe

The operative word is "presently." Let's look downriver. Is it a "given" that Snapstream will be a dominant player in this market space? Will the company exists five years from now?

You hit the nail right on the head. If they don't quickly get their act together then the answer to your question is no - but then you know that. The questing is does Snapstream realize it. I'd hate for them to dissappear too. I don't have an axe to grind either - but I did pay good money for a product that's not keeping up with the times and I'm really frustrated.

It's more than just tuner cards and HD - if they don't integrate Beyond Media in 4.0 then it's for nothing. Why would any new customer buy it? I'd buy a complete (competitive, if necessary) product before I'd buy half a product.

[Cyriel]

They have already said it will be integrated AFTER the release of 4.0

[pdaughe]

I agree Boomerang. I've been doing my best to promote Snapstream sales. However, it does become a matter of personal integrity. How can I continue to recommend a product if it doesn't provide superb picture quality using dual tuners? It seems like Nvidia is saying the dual tuner card is supported under Windows XP. If that implies other software than just InstantMedia (i.e. the standard WDM interface), perhaps it will work with Beyond TV. I bet we find out soon....I want to build a HTPC for my sister. We can buy Windows MCE for $129 from NewEgg and equip it with two Sapphire 550 Pro tuners for $72 each. She would have superior picture quality and dual tuner functionality with full support from ATI. This scenario is exactly what Snapstream must address because, here I am, considering this alternative for my sister when I absolutely love the Snapstream products and have already persuaded my brother to purchase both Beyond TV and Beyond Media. However, his machine is equipped with only one 550 Pro tuner. His picture quality is excellent, but he's waiting for direction from me regarding the purchase of a second tuner.

Do I tell him, "sorry, but your only choice is to purchase a less than state-of-the art tuner card."

Your point is the same as mine: What percentage of the current customer base desires support for high definition TV? Yes, Beyond TV should provide that, but not at the expense of base product functionality. Just my opinion.

[boomerang]

There are other choices besides MCE and BTV - what tuners do the other solutions offer?

[boomerang]

Originally Posted by Cyriel

They have already said it will be integrated AFTER the release of 4.0

I know what they said.

Their "strategy" is a day late and a dollar short. They won't get my money without the integration. And I doubt very much I'm alone on that.

[LinkB]

I have the same question... looking through the slides there seems to be a lot of smoke and mirrors going on (like the part about how they're product is the only one with an integrated program guide or how the PVR-500MCE doesn't work on MCE). And based on what I've seen of nVidia's TV tuner products in the past, I certainly don't *expect* great things of another TV tuner product from nVidia. Whose actually used one of these things?

Rakesh

Originally Posted by boomerang

Why is this card superior to Hauppauge's PVR-xxx series?

Inquiring minds want to know...