New version of windows gets a name

[jsereda]

Good points, but to me it seems like an operating system that is still in development. I guess that is why it's open source? What is the point of running a system that companys aren't openly supporting. I mean I don't use Linux so I may be wrong here, but Snap Stream doesn't support it, does Hauppauge? I know when we install it at work we have to be very selective of which PC's we are going to use because linux "doesn't like" certain hardware configs. If stability and hack threats are that much of an issue to you on a Windows box there must be something wrong. My system is up all day and night, I never have issues. But again, I have microsoft's antispyware running, firewall enabled and I don't surf porn sites. It's great that linux doesnt have these problems "out of the box", but I see no problem running automatic updates or sometimes running a manual update. The only "reason" you posted that would make me want to use Linux is Price. But you get what you pay for. And I guess your paying for an operating system that many companys do not support. Unless these things change I wouldn't use it. I have too many things on my system that I know I couldn't use with Linux. It runs great on an xbox though.

[boomerang]

Originally Posted by jsereda

Good points, but to me it seems like an operating system that is still in development. I guess that is why it's open source? What is the point of running a system that companys aren't openly supporting. I mean I don't use Linux so I may be wrong here, but Snap Stream doesn't support it, does Hauppauge? I know when we install it at work we have to be very selective of which PC's we are going to use because linux "doesn't like" certain hardware configs. If stability and hack threats are that much of an issue to you on a Windows box there must be something wrong. My system is up all day and night, I never have issues. But again, I have microsoft's antispyware running, firewall enabled and I don't surf porn sites. It's great that linux doesnt have these problems "out of the box", but I see no problem running automatic updates or sometimes running a manual update. The only "reason" you posted that would make me want to use Linux is Price. But you get what you pay for. And I guess your paying for an operating system that many companys do not support. Unless these things change I wouldn't use it. I have too many things on my system that I know I couldn't use with Linux. It runs great on an xbox though.

Good questions but you're missing some important points.

First, *all* software is constantly in development.

It's open source, because some people strongly believe that software should be free (as in speech, not just as in beer). What you're paying for if you buy a boxed version of Linux is *support*, not the software itself. RedHat notwithstanding. Or MontaVista - but that's a specialzed, embedded version.

Speaking of Monta Vista, many set top boxes already run it. Tivo runs on Linux although I don't know which version.

If you use a cell phone, there a really good chance that your call is handled by at least one blade running Linux (or VX Works). Talk to telco providers about Microsoft and they laugh hysterically - I've been there and seen it.

Linux is very mature. If your system has many things that won't work on Linux, then you must have a very strange system indeed. No disrespect intended, it's just that *today's* modern distributions have tons of support.

Case in point : a relative was visiting two Christmases ago and wanted to download her digital pictures from her Kodak camera and email them. Because Windows didn't recognize the camera I went to the Kodak web site but quickly gave up because of all the hoops Kodak makes you go through. So I rebooted my machine to SuSE, plugged in the camera, clicked on the camera icon that poped up on my desktop, dragged the photos to a folder and burned them to a CD without having to configure anything.

Many of the "innovative" new desktop features in the upcoming Windows Vista have been commonplace in Linux for a while now.

No, Hauppauge doesn't support Linux for their tuner cards - however, their MediaMVP player runs on Linux.

Also, just because Hauppauge doesn't write Linux drivers doesn't mean you can't use Hauppauge tuners in Linux. There are third party Hauppauge drivers for Linux (and Windows!).

You mentioned getting what you pay for.

OK, Windows costs hundreds of $$$ and you get an OS and not much else - a few toy applications. Then you have to "activate" it and if you change your hardware you run the risk of not being able to re-activate it.

On the SuSE DVD there is the OS, an office suite every bit as good as MS Office (written mostly by Sun, no doubt you've heard of them, they invented Java), you get state of the art web server, file server, and more things than I can even think to mention. In this case, no you don't get what you pay for, you get a hell of a lot more.

As to security, if you think you're safe just because you don't visit porn sites or open junk mail, let me tell you the truth.

*By design*, all you have to do to infect an XP machine is connect it to the net. Period. There's a word for people who don't use hardware firewalls - infected. As for the Windows firewall, it was *off* by default until SP2. And as we all know, most people never bother to change defaults.

That's made even worse by the fact that most people run with administrator priveledges and no password. Not to mention those that don't bother to configure their routers or enable secuity on their wireless networks.

Linux on the other hand pretty much forces you not to run with administrator rights - oh, you can if you really want, but you'd be insane to...

So there's lots of reasons besides price...

[jsereda]

I dont think my system is strange, I run an audio recording system that I do not believe runs on linux. I use a Line 6 USB Guitar Port and record directly into a peice of software that allows me to add multiple tracks and create drum beats along with all kinds of other instruments. Along with BTV recording from my 2 tuner cards and tons of other apps I use. Since hardware has gotten to this point, I was able to consolidate all my programs and systems to my one main system, I really don't need to have more than one anymore (except for my wifes system so we don't bump heads on whos using the computer when). So yeah, I do see your points, but I really don't think linux would meet my needs. I'm not knocking it, I'm just saying.... there may be reasons why it's not a main stream operating system for computers.
Also I didn't realize how many types of Linux Operating systems there are, you name all these things off the top of your head. For someone like me who doesn't know much about linux its all very confusing. I'm sure its a good system that fills it's notch in the computing world. Supposedly it's great for webservers, and with the security you describe, I can see why.

[boomerang]

Your system isn't strange, it's highly specific and I understand. Yeah, Linux can be confusing at first. Especially if someone starts with RedHat (yuk). I got shoved into it at work and I guess I forget all the questions I asked along the way. I wish I'd had SuSE to start with.

What I'd *really* like to to see is a CD/DVD with Linux and DVR software that *any* one can install simply by booting from and running an installer. There's a project called Knopmyth, but last I tried it, it was a far cry from anything ready for prime time (mass consumer use).

If someone would make a pay version and offer a guarantee and real support, it'd be a huge advancement for HTPC users (Windows is a far cry from a mission-critical OS, that's a big reason why it's not used in telco equipment). Right now you pretty much need a CS degree and/or a month of spare time (for lots and lots of research) to get a DVR running on Linux and it shouldn't have to be that way...

[jsereda]

Originally Posted by boomerang

Your system isn't strange, it's highly specific and I understand. Yeah, Linux can be confusing at first. Especially if someone starts with RedHat (yuk). I got shoved into it at work and I guess I forget all the questions I asked along the way. I wish I'd had SuSE to start with.

What I'd *really* like to to see is a CD/DVD with Linux and DVR software that *any* one can install simply by booting from and running an installer. There's a project called Knopmyth, but last I tried it, it was a far cry from anything ready for prime time (mass consumer use).

If someone would make a pay version and offer a guarantee and real support, it'd be a huge advancement for HTPC users (Windows is a far cry from a mission-critical OS, that's a big reason why it's not used in telco equipment). Right now you pretty much need a CS degree and/or a month of spare time (for lots and lots of research) to get a DVR running on Linux and it shouldn't have to be that way...

Yeah but if Tivo's and Replay Tv's are running it, it shouldn't be too far down the road until what you vision is a reality. I too would like something that is that easy. I'm sure it's what everyone wants.

[boomerang]

Originally Posted by jsereda

Yeah but if Tivo's and Replay Tv's are running it, it shouldn't be too far down the road until what you vision is a reality.

I hope so. But we need to encourage it - I told Snapstream if they make a Linux version, I'd be one of the first customers. They need to hear that from lots of people to know it would be worth the effort.

One problem with a "Linux version" is the complexity of different distributions, different kernel versions, etc. Many companies recognize this and it scares them.

This is why I think a *commercial quality* approach similar to what Knoppmyth is literally pioneering is the way to go. I don't how that would all play with the GPL, but it's fine with me if the DVR portion is closed-source. I just want stability and security - and freedom from Microsoft.

[Rich A]

I'm pretty sure the ReplayTVs are not using Linux .. (I own three of them) There "are" 3rd party utilies that run in Linux to enable one to re-initialize the hard drive (using an image file). These utilities are also available in a Windows NTFS environment as well. Their actual op. system (AFAIK) is proprietary.

TIVO however is another thing.