ratDVD - Anybody seen or tried?

[Xiadix]

ratDVD (Homepage) or ratDVD (via FileForum) is a program that can compress a DVD to around a Gig including the extra's on the DVD. It requires WMP10 and DirectX which already on my SS box, and then can be played like a normal DVD from most players. Has anybody seen or tried this yet? It would be wonderful especially in conjunction with the DVD Library plugin. I am going to give it a shot, but prolly won't have time till the weekend. Post here if you try it sooner.

KevG

Update: People on the CDfreaks forum dedicated to ratDVD say that is ask for WMP10 but they didn't install it and it is working fine. You will still have to decrypt any protected DVD before making a backup.

[optikhog]

Yep, I've just started playing with this. Looks amazingly promising, altho I've only done one test encoding session thus far.

If it works well, the next trick will be getting the files to play in BeyondMedia. I haven't tried playing the files with the built-in player yet, but definitely will be in a day or two as I get some files encoded at a quality I can live with.

Like you, I'd guess that Kilrsat's DVD Library plugin is probably going to be the best way to get something like this integrated as he is amazingly responsive in making additions/changes.

[optikhog]

OK, after a few tests now, all I can say is WOW. This is gonna be a BIG hit. My latest attempt brought my copy of Blade Runner down to ~850MB with very little loss.

Now for the ignorant part - how do I convince BeyondMedia that it should try to play .ratDVD files? I've modified every .XML file I could find which contained file entensions and added the .ratDVD file extension as well, but I get no love - when I go to my Videos directory, the file does not show up in the list. Anyone?

[Rich A]

There are already a ka-zillion programs out there for ripping and/or shrinking DVD content. What would you say makes this one stand out from the rest?

[optikhog]

Originally Posted by Rich A

There are already a ka-zillion programs out there for ripping and/or shrinking DVD content. What would you say makes this one stand out from the rest?

Imagine the entire content from a DVD (including menu structure, extra content, etc.) in a single, (relatively) small, playable file. Plus, the interface is ridiculously easy to use and thus far in my testing, the content quality is easily on par with the best GK compressions I've seen while being significantly smaller.

Ultimately, I think it will succeed based on the fact that it is free, easy to use, works extremely well and is able to maintain an entire DVD structure for easy playback. It also features the ability to easy reassemble itself back into DVD format for easy burning.

Obviously, this is all my opinion, but it looks like the underground is already intrigued as the web site is usually unavailable due to traffic loads. I've played with ka-million of the ka-zillion programs you referred to and this is by far my favorite thus far.

[Rich A]

Ah the magic word I guess is free. But the technology and such is pretty old. There have been fully automated DVD rippers that will duplicate the entire DVD to a standard CD size ( <700 mb ). I'm not into that stuff myself but of course have followed the developement. And the quality of those homemade copied CDs is pretty close to the original DVD.

I'll check it out myself .. as I'm always looking for new encoders and such. This sounds like a Divx; based or MPeg-4 based product no ?

Thanks for the link ..

[optikhog]

Originally Posted by Rich A

Ah the magic word I guess is free. But the technology and such is pretty old. There have been fully automated DVD rippers that will duplicate the entire DVD to a standard CD size ( <700 mb ). I'm not into that stuff myself but of course have followed the developement. And the quality of those homemade copied CDs is pretty close to the original DVD.

Believe me, I was just as skeptical - I've been down this road before as well. The piece that hooked me is that it's not really a method of simply shrinking a DVD to a size which can be burned to readily available medium; rather it is a single file which can be played back/stored on any PC and is easily transportable across the 'net while still maintaining the ability to get pushed back to DVD format easily. It's similar to Divx in that it can make a big movie small and watchable, but getting a Divx movie back onto a DVD can be a real pain.

Originally Posted by Rich A

I'll check it out myself .. as I'm always looking for new encoders and such. This sounds like a Divx; based or MPeg-4 based product no ?

They claim it's a proprietary algorithm doing the compression and all content is stored within the matroska container, which can hold all kinds of fun A/V info, thereby removing the limitations which DIVX-style players have using AVI. It was unclear as to whether their overall methodology was based on MPEG-4, altho the spokesman claimed that they've "studied Xvid closely".

More info on the container format is found here:
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=138959

There's lots of high-level stuff in the FAQ on their site about the format itself, but the nuts & bolts still seem to be somwhat shrouded in mystery.

[Rich A]

Originally Posted by Rich A

Ah the magic word I guess is free. But the technology and such is pretty old. There have been fully automated DVD rippers that will duplicate the entire DVD to a standard CD size ( <700 mb ). I'm not into that stuff myself but of course have followed the developement. And the quality of those homemade copied CDs is pretty close to the original DVD.

I'll check it out myself .. as I'm always looking for new encoders and such. This sounds like a Divx; based or MPeg-4 based product no ?

Thanks for the link ..

Just gave a quick glance at the web site. Yes indeed. This IS something new. Not anything like your typical DVD replicators or strippers. And his unique compression scheme may be ideal for those people who want to store their DVD content in a PC server environment. Thanks for the link.

[bnflaherty]

it Does seem pretty impressive...

Anyone have any results as to how long it takes to create a file? Obviously there will be differences based on the exact specs of the machine doing the crunching... how about ballpark figures?

[optikhog]

Originally Posted by bnflaherty

Anyone have any results as to how long it takes to create a file? Obviously there will be differences based on the exact specs of the machine doing the crunching... how about ballpark figures?

I can tell you that the numbers posted in the CDFreaks forum seem very high - I have tested both here on my P4 2.6 machine and at home on my 2400+ workstation and in both places the compression of a full-length DVD took around 3.5-5 hours, depending on size/length/compression/etc. My tests were done using the default settings.

One thing I am doing differently is using DVDShrink to get the initial files down to a size I can burn to DVD-R, then mounting the resulting .ISO file with Nero ImageDrive and pointing ratDVD to that virtual drive to do the compression. I use DVDShrink first because I am backing up my DVDs for later use as well as storing them to my PC.

One thing that did concern me was the statement that decoding the output would take significant CPU cycles but I have not found this to be true - in brief testing, even my 1.3Ghz Duron was not working very hard to decode the file to my TV.

Now if only I could figure out how to play the file using Beyond Media. Hmm.

[Rich A]

Originally Posted by optikhog

I can tell you that the numbers posted in the CDFreaks forum seem very high - I have tested both here on my P4 2.6 machine and at home on my 2400+ workstation and in both places the compression of a full-length DVD took around 3.5-5 hours, depending on size/length/compression/etc. My tests were done using the default settings.

One thing I am doing differently is using DVDShrink to get the initial files down to a size I can burn to DVD-R, then mounting the resulting .ISO file with Nero ImageDrive and pointing ratDVD to that virtual drive to do the compression. I use DVDShrink first because I am backing up my DVDs for later use as well as storing them to my PC.

One thing that did concern me was the statement that decoding the output would take significant CPU cycles but I have not found this to be true - in brief testing, even my 1.3Ghz Duron was not working very hard to decode the file to my TV.

Now if only I could figure out how to play the file using Beyond Media. Hmm.

What do you use to playback the files in Windows? Does Windows Media Player work once you've registered the codec?

If so I think you should be able to play them back with WMP set up as a menu option in Beyond Media. I haven't tried it yet, but will do so when I get home. BTW, 3 hours is a long time to compress. I use a program that will shrink a typical 6 GB Mpeg-2 file to 4 GB in minutes. But then that is simply an mpeg transcoding .. there's no encoding done. The 3 or more hours is pretty much telling me that he is actually re-encoding everything. If so time is going to be relative to your CPU power.

Still it is nice to have the entire menu structure and all duplicated. I wonder why he did not just choose to do a normal "shrink", which most DVD archive programs do .. only requiring minutes instead of hours. When those programs shrink they generally just transcode the mpeg to a lower bit rate without "any" encoding, so it's very fast. Typical DVD archiving programs generally take 20 to 30 minutes .. resulting in a home made DVD-R complete with the entire menu structure etc. of the original DVD.

I'll hold back any further comments until I get a chance to try it myself. But the only two negative things I see are the time involved and that it is a custom proprietory codec ??

[optikhog]

Originally Posted by Rich A

What do you use to playback the files in Windows? Does Windows Media Player work once you've registered the codec?
If so I think you should be able to play them back with WMP set up as a menu option in Beyond Media. I haven't tried it yet, but will do so when I get home.

Yep, it's the only player I've been able to get working with the file thus far. I can't get Zoom Player to show video even with the settings provided on the web site. Unfortunately WMP doesn't work particularly well from the 4-foot interface only using the remote control, at least in my experience.

Originally Posted by Rich A

BTW, 3 hours is a long time to compress. I use a program that will shrink a typical 6 GB Mpeg-2 file to 4 GB in minutes. But then that is simply an mpeg transcoding .. there's no encoding done. The 3 or more hours is pretty much telling me that he is actually re-encoding everything. If so time is going to be relative to your CPU power.
Still it is nice to have the entire menu structure and all duplicated. I wonder why he did not just choose to do a normal "shrink", which most DVD archive programs do .. only requiring minutes instead of hours. When those programs shrink they generally just transcode the mpeg to a lower bit rate without "any" encoding, so it's very fast. Typical DVD archiving programs generally take 20 to 30 minutes .. resulting in a home made DVD-R complete with the entire menu structure etc. of the original DVD.

Yes it is a long time, but it's roughly the same amount of time as it took to convert my files to Xvid using AutoGK, so no biggie from my perspective.
I agree that it'd be nice to not have to wait so long for a file to be done, but IMHO the ability to have a single, playable file housing an entire DVD with little loss outweighs the negatives. Then again, my goal with ratDVD is to build up a library of movie files so that no physical DVD's are necessary.

Originally Posted by Rich A

I'll hold back any further comments until I get a chance to try it myself. But the only two negative things I see are the time involved and that it is a custom proprietory codec ??

I think that's the scary part at this point, altho they've discussed opening several parts to the community. The article on news.com indicated that they're being secretive so as to avoid being attacked by organizations such as the MPAA, which makes sense.

[Rich A]

I was not successful in getting this to work. Of course it doesn't work with the existing SS Mpeg files, only DVD TS and such. I tried several ways to get it to work with a couple store bought dvds. Pegs CPU for a few minutes then settles down .. and after a half hour it's stuck with no activity.

And it's funny that I can't stop it or exit the program. Just stuck there. Even the old three finger salute won't work. Strange. I thought this might be a compatibility problem with my dedicated media editing machine. (An Athlon 64) but I get the same problem on my smaller Athlon 2.6 ghz Barton CPU.

Installs fine .. no errors. Just doesn't work. Those of you who "can" get it to work .. what processor are you using ?

But frankly, if I did get it to work, it would have to give me something a lot better than Divx and faster to make it worth it. At least Divx is more or less supported and frankly the 700 mb compressed DVDs really look fine. Still I'd really like to check the "rat" thing out. Any suggestions ??

[optikhog]

Originally Posted by Rich A

I was not successful in getting this to work. Of course it doesn't work with the existing SS Mpeg files, only DVD TS and such. I tried several ways to get it to work with a couple store bought dvds. Pegs CPU for a few minutes then settles down .. and after a half hour it's stuck with no activity.

And it's funny that I can't stop it or exit the program. Just stuck there. Even the old three finger salute won't work. Strange. I thought this might be a compatibility problem with my dedicated media editing machine. (An Athlon 64) but I get the same problem on my smaller Athlon 2.6 ghz Barton CPU.

That's really odd, it worked without a hitch on both of my machines.

Originally Posted by Rich A

Installs fine .. no errors. Just doesn't work. Those of you who "can" get it to work .. what processor are you using ?

It worked on both my Athlon XP and P4 boxes no problem. How really odd. Well, I guess sit tight since it's the first release...

[Rich A]

Maybe I'm doing this wrong? I'm just pointing it to the TS files on the DVD. I'm not ripping the DVD first or anything. Exactly how did you use it with a normal DVD ?