Let's make a remote: USB-UIRT vs. Tira-2.1 vs. Irman

[softnerd]

I've recently come upon some realizations regarding control of my system...

1. I don't like pulling out my wireless mouse or keyboard.
2. My Remote Wonder and Firefly are RF, which is nice, but everything else in the world is IR, and I'm tired of juggling remotes.
3. All of the IR remotes for PCs I've found don't have nearly enough buttons to control my HTPC (anyone wanna buy a new, in-box Streamzap remote?)

So, I just bought a copy of Girder and a Logitech Harmony 688 and I'm thinking, "hey, if I had a universal IR receiver I could just create my own virtual remote with Girder, right?"

Now that I've had that thought I'm not going to be happy until I do it. Does anyone have any experience with using USB-UIRT, Tira-2.1, or Irman along with Girder to control their HTPCs? I'm trying to figure out which receiver to buy. I know that BTV supports USB-UIRT for controlling external tuning devices (which is a plus even tho I don't need to do that right now). Anybody have any suggestions or experiences to share?

Also, I noticed several posts regarding 1-remote system strategies, so once I get this set up I'd be happy to share info. on how to set it up and how to optimally configure Girder for maximum functionality. If anyone else has done this, please share...

[TV Scheduler]

Well...... I say get a Hauppauge card and use their 45 button remote. It's hard to go wrong with a pvr 150 and 45 buttons cover a lot of things.

I've been down that road you're look down and have boxes full of stuff I don't mess with any more.

I haven't tried that thing they sell for MCE. In the long run 'there can be only one'. And we all know who that's going to be.


Bob

[softnerd]

Originally Posted by TV Scheduler

Well...... I say get a Hauppauge card and use their 45 button remote. It's hard to go wrong with a pvr 150 and 45 buttons cover a lot of things.

I've been down that road you're look down and have boxes full of stuff I don't mess with any more.

I haven't tried that thing they sell for MCE. In the long run 'there can be only one'. And we all know who that's going to be.


Bob

Ok.....I have two questions for you:

1. What remote(s) do you use?
2. What turned you off of creating a custom remote setup?

Just curious. I'm an engineer, so I'm not afraid of a bit of a struggle to get things working.

[TV Scheduler]

Uh Oh, an engineer. Now I'm trouble.

First, I don't like the transceiver model. Mostly this is a gut feeling. Being able to transmit and receive at the same time is unnecessarily complex. A nail gun is a great tool but hammers don't malfunction. If you don't need a nail gun, just use the hammer.

I used the Hauppauge receiver, the USB-UIRT and that RF thingy that ATI offers. The point of them is nothing more then sending keystrokes to the focused app from a handheld unit. The most complex thing it ever needs to do is bring an app into focus and send it a keystroke.

I've used a bunch of transmitters and written an app to control an array of transmitters and a bunch of devices.

You mentioned Girder so is your main interest is in using a remote to operate software?

My main interest was in using the computer to operate external devices using an IR transmitter.

Bob

[LORENJOHNS]

ok lets give this a try
if you have a 150,250,500 etc plug in the ir reciver that came with the tuner card,
i dont think it makes any diff wich one if you have more than one tuner.
install the ir software that came with the tuner,better yet download the new version from hauppauge site.run btv setup and tell it what remote (black or silver) then use the hauppauge remote to confirm operation,at that point it's time to have some fun
plug your harmony remote into the pc that has the harmony setup software on
add a new device and select hauppauge pvr-250 etc
now you dont have to buy another ir device, just use the one that came with the tuner card
and dont have to worry about any rf issues like cordless phone,microwave ovens etc
and the best part only one remote.
there are a few issues that you will have to contend with,first i dont think the harmony can open or close btv (if it just a htpc only not an issue)
second i seem to recall some issues between the silver and black, so you will play around to see what works best,or even better search the forums for the post's about this.
ok my bad just looked at your sig and see your using sapphire tuner's
i dont use them.do they come with a remote,ir or rf?.and will the remote work with btv.
but still one last trick if all else fails buy a streamzap remote from the btv store
attach the ir reciver and follow the above instructions for the hauppauge card.
so i hope i didn't bore you too much and was at least some help
loren
btw befor you say great another remote,but they are cheap enough and compared to the harmony allmost everything is cheap(i know i have 4 of them and just ordered the newone)
so one more time hope this help's
loren

[softnerd]

Originally Posted by TV Scheduler

Uh Oh, an engineer. Now I'm trouble.

Lol...wasn't trying to be pretentious, just wanted to let you know that I'm accustomed to banging my head against a wall a little bit to get a problem solved or a procedure figured out. Some people won't bother to work their way through frustrating or difficult problems, but if you make your living as an engineer you get the whip cracked on your back if you're not willing to do a little thinking...

Anyway, I'm really just talking about software automation using the Harmony as the input device. I thought using a generic tranceiver (i.e., one that is not designed for a specific remote like the Streamzap) would allow me more freedom to create custom macros by way of Girder. If I emulate the Streamzap remote with the Harmony I'm only getting 35 buttons. That's a bunch of reserved buttons and 4 programmable ones. 4 is not enough programmable buttons if I'm going to take the time to fool with this. The Harmony is capable of so much more than that...I was imagining LCD menu options like Winamp, BTV, my favorite web sites, etc. I guess what I'm looking for is a way to use Girder and the Harmony to provide an indefinite number of custom buttons + full customization of the fixed buttons. The Harmony manages the functionality by 'activity' (like 'Multimedia PC - Music'), and then Girder takes over on the PC app side.

I'm picturing an activity like 'Winamp Internet Radio' that turns on my TV, sets the TV to PC input, turns on my receiver, sets the receiver to '7ch Stereo', opens Winamp, and switches Winamp to 'internet radio'. You know, to impress the ladies... Kidding.

I realize that it would be a lot of work, but I know it's possible. I've also heard of people using an IR keyboard to teach the Harmony combinations of keystrokes, but that actually seems even more complicated than what I'm proposing. Besides, sending actual keystrokes can be a little dodgy. Reminds me of writing 'screen scrape' apps for terminal emulators...

[TV Scheduler]

I prefer to pound my fist on the desk but I've found head banging to be an effective method.

You're describing a system that operates external Home Entertainment devices. That's what HE Remote does. (Most folks only use it in a very limited form.) HE Remote is an ActiveX app so you might be able to do everything you want using a little javascript in a web page.

I use a web page to tell HE Remote to operate my equipment. I can push one button and the page comes up on the TV. From that page I can control anything HE Remote can control using only a few buttons.

Bob

[softnerd]

Well, I don't really need to control external devices from the PC. The Harmony remote takes care of that for me. What I'm trying to do is make it so that the Harmony remote can treat the PC just like any other home theater component. None of the existing IR PC remotes have enough discreet buttons to do this effectively, so I'm proposing creating a custom remote profile for the Harmony by way of Girder and a universal IR receiver. Is that more clear?

I would just have to create a custom profile for the Harmony and use some old remotes or an IR keyboard to teach it IR strings that wouldn't conflict with those of my other components. Then I could assign these strings to whatever buttons/menu options I want to map them to on the Harmony remote. Then I would just configure/program Girder to interpret these strings and react however I deem apropriate for given situations.

Like I said, I have a Streamzap remote that I could customize a bit with Girder, but it doesn't have nearly enough buttons and only 3 of them can be used to automate tasks or launch apps. Not nearly enough for the Harmony to control the HTPC to set up 'activities'. The kicker is that the Streamzap remote doesn't have a button for a right mouse click, which is a real deal-breaker for me. The remote itself is irrelevant because I'm using the Harmony to emulate it anyway -- it's just that the Streamzap receiver and driver are only 'listening' for the discreet IR strings produced by the Streamzap remote, so I can't add additional buttons to the profile beyond what the Streamzap remote has. See what I'm sprayin'?

[TV Scheduler]

The remote is just an input device. All you need to know is which app is in the foreground and get the 'IR code to keystroke map' for that app.

If the app in the foreground isn't the one you want to use then you need to bring the app you want to the foreground. If the app isn't running then you'll need to start it.


Bob

[softnerd]

Originally Posted by TV Scheduler

The remote is just an input device. All you need to know is which app is in the foreground and get the 'IR code to keystroke map' for that app.

If the app in the foreground isn't the one you want to use then you need to bring the app you want to the foreground. If the app isn't running then you'll need to start it.


Bob

Me know that. Me huge computer geek.

If you're not familiar with the Harmony remote, it's a highly programmable learning remote that you configure from your PC via a USB cable. It can be programmed with hundreds of IR commands that can be mapped to different buttons in different situations. Any commands that don't fit or belong on the static buttons can be added to a menu on the remote's LCD display. This menu can change depending on what you're currenly doing with your system. It can also learn any IR command from another device and store it with your profile on Logitech's server(s) for later use. It keeps track of the state of your components and sets their respective states depending on which 'activity' you're using. It then changes the functions of the static buttons and the items on the LCD menu depending on which 'activity' you're currently engaged in. For example, when I press 'watch a DVD' on my remote, a pre-programmed sequence of events is set in motion by the Harmony remote:

1. It sends the 'power on' IR command for my TV, DVD player, and Receiver -- it only sends the command to the components that are currently off (the remote 'remembers').
2. It sends the 'component 1 input' command to my TV.
3. It sends the 'DVD input' and 'Mode: Dolby Pro LogicII - Movie' commands to my receiver.
4. It sends the 'play' command to my DVD player.
5. It maps the menu nav buttons, the play/pause/stop/forward/etc., and other applicable buttons to the IR commands for my DVD player.
6. It maps the audio-related buttons to the IR commands for my receiver.
7. It switches the LCD menu on the remote to the one I've set up for the 'watch DVD' activity.
8. It 'remembers' the current state of all components so it knows which commands to send when I switch to a different activity or press the 'off' button.

All of this behavior is programmable. What I'm trying to do is set up my Harmony remote to be able to send IR commands to my HTPC that can do things like open Winamp on the PC or give it the focus, map the remote's buttons to the functions I want to use with the PC while using Winamp (Girder helps with this), and then close Winamp when I switch to a different 'activity'.

The problem is that I either have to set up the Harmony to emulate another remote (like Streamzap), or create a custom remote profile with IR commands that I can 'name', map them to certain buttons in certain situations, and then have them received by Girder to execute the desired command on the PC. These could include opening an app, closing an app, sending a keystroke or combination thereof, or executing a macro script that I've written. The problem is that the Streamzap remote and the Hauppauge remote don't have as many discreet IR commands available to them as I would like to use at any 1 time, so using a universal IR receiver would give me more power to configure IR commands for things like 'Open Winamp' and 'Give Beyond Media the focus'.

I guess I'm not doing a good job of explaining this. Does anybody get what I'm talking about here?

[BenH]

I think you missed Bob's saying any remote works with any reciever with girder. I would try all Phillips RC5 codes . To bad I do not know girder . Girder can work with anything . heh - I did make it read keystrokes from another remote program to send keystrokes to another app.

To have one key to send 2 or more Ir signalls would require a app that sends codes that you tell it. Then you need to run that app 2 times with different input . That might somehow let you turn on 2 devices with one output . I think even Uice can do that. I can press stop and sends stop to BTV and start WMP in one command . You would have to pass parameters to the sending app . I can not make the Hauppauge ir transmiter to control my steroe or I would . I would have to get something to listent to ir tansmiter and send long range ir . That is not going to happen without being expenive. It would be like home automation . I think Bob has good answers .

[TV Scheduler]

Originally Posted by BenH

I can not make the Hauppauge ir transmiter to control my steroe or I would .

You can and it's easy.

[Default]
GRNPOWER={run(c:\1herem~1\HERemoteHelper.exe stereo poweroff )}

Or you can get fancy with a web page and a little javascript.

try {
RemoteLink = new ActiveXObject('HERemote.RemoteLink');
} catch(e) {
RemoteLink = null;
}



function SendCmd(c){
if(RemoteLink)RemoteLink.SendCmd (Devices[fdevice]+' '+c);
}


Bob

[BenH]

Thanks Bob . I guess all those satelite and cable box devices Hauppauge has in there software can upgraded to send about any code with Heremote helper app . I have been just leaveing the Stereo on . The steroe is in bad shape though. If you hit power on the box it might switch to Cassete instead of power off or it might open the 3 cd tray . The volume knob goes up when you spin it down unless you spin it pressing a certain way . My mom lost the remote for it . I found some codes with a one for all remotes that works .

I am set up ok for me so I do not need to change . My one for all does control the Steroe and PC as seperate devices on the remote . The one for all has less buttons the 45 Button Hauppauge remote but more devices .

No need to reply Bob. Thank you

[TV Scheduler]

The Hauppauge remote controls HE Remote.
HE Remote controls a MyBlaster.
The MyBlaster turns off the stereo.

Bob

[softnerd]

Ok, that's still not what I'm talking about. I guess I'm completely incapable of communicating what it is I'm trying to accomplish here. I know all of the things that you're telling me. That isn't the problem.

The problem isn't a remote working with a certain receiver, etc. I know that a universal IR receiver is going to receive commands from any remote. I know the remote is just an input device. The problem is that since no existing remotes that the Harmony can emulate have enough buttons to perform the variety of functions I'm looking for, custom profiles must be created in Girder and for the Harmony remote that use IR commands that won't conflict with those of my other components (or hopefully anyone else's so the profile info can be shared). The 'project' I'm trying to describe is simply this:

• Create a profile in the Harmony remote software that emulates a remote that doesn't actually exist. That way my virtual remote can have as many buttons as I want it to. I was thinking I could use old remotes or an IR keyboard to 'steal' discreet IR strings that won't conflict with those for components I use.
• Connect an IR receiver to the HTPC that can receive the commands and pass them to Girder. Maybe I don't need a universal receiver to do this. I know that the driver/software for the Streamzap receiver won't process IR strings that aren't sent by the Streamzap PC Remote (it only responds to a certain set of IR strings), but maybe Girder will allow me around this. I haven't tried it.
• Create the profile in Girder to respond to the IR strings in the appropriate way.

Really all I was asking in starting this thread was:

• Has anybody else created a custom control schema like this, and if so,
• Do they want to share their experience?
• Do they have any recommendations as far as methodology?
• Do they have any recommendations as far as hardware (like which receiver to use)?

That's all. If I'm still not being clear then I give up!