Comparison of MPEG editors?

[cgwaters]

I'm in the market for a new MPEG editor. I've had it with Pinnacle Studio.

I want something that makes it easy to remove commercials from MPEG files (created in BTV). I'd also like the ability to create DVDs from some of the resulting files. Extra credit if it can read/write WMV files. Are there any other important features I should be thinking about?

I've been looking closely at TMPGEnc, VideoRedo, and WombleVCR. Has anyone seen a comparison of these products? i.e., feature comparison, pluses/minuses of each, etc.

(FWIW, I've heard the most positive things about TMPGEnc, but I am baffled by the differences in their product line--Plus 2.5, 3.0 XPress, MPEG Editor, DVD Author, etc. The company would appear to be in need of a serious marketing makeover.)

[Josch]

TMPGEnc mpeg editor is by far the best in my opinion. I've tried numerous different ones, and TMPGEnc is flawless
Trial version:
http://www.pegasys-inc.com/en/download/tme.html

[Josch]

By the way, it's $48 for the mpeg editor if you decide to buy, but it's well worth it (well it was to me anyway). Try the trial version and see if you like it. It is not cumbersome to use at all. I can bleep out the commercials in a one hour show in like 5 minutes, then when I output the file to the new directory it takes maybe another ten minutes to re-encode (but that part it does by itself so you can walk away).

[Josch]

Sorry, I didn't plan my posts very well (keep thinking of things to say).


I also have 3.0 Xpress and that program is more of a program to change file formats from one to another. Like for example, I use it to convert my raw .avi files from my camcorder to mpeg format so I can then burn to disc in DVD format.

I just use the TMPGenc mpeg editor to bleep my commercials from BTV mpegs. Then I use Ulead DVD Movie Factory to author DVDs (create VOB A/V folders or .ISO files) from the resulting mpeg files. Then if the ending DVD exceeds the 4.4 gb max, I use the free DVD Shrink program to compress it down to 4.4 (which is a 4.7gb SL disc).

TMPGenc mpeg editor is just an editing program, you can not author with it. But I prefer the Ulead DVD author anyway.

Also, I DID try the Video Redo and the Womble and I don't remember details anymore, but I do remember that they seemed very cumbersome to use.

hope this helps

[ejdriscoll]

To answer the original poster's question, I've seen a lot of threads asking which MPEG editor people use (such as this one ) but I haven't seen any side-by-side comparisons of those products, nor did a quick Google search turn up anything.

From the other threads I've seen, you've at least done a very good job of picking the most popular editors to compare; you may just have to do the comparing yourself.

The one feature I know that VideoRedo has that some people get a kick out of is that it can recognize the BTV smartskip xml files and automatically make cut points out of them when you load the video for editing. Personally, I love the product and I don't even use that feature.

(PS: VideoRedo is "cumbersome" in the same way that Nicole Kidman is "hard to look at" )

[cgwaters]

Thanks for the replies. Replies/questions, in no particular order:

So all three companies' products require a separate program for DVD authoring? What authoring program do VideoRedo and WombleVCR recommend?

Do any of these programs work with WMV files?

I have a copy of Roxio 6 on the shelf, which includes something called "DVD Builder". How does TMPGenc's DVD Author compare to that?

If TMPGenc's 3.0 Xpress is more of a program to change file formats, what is Plus 2.5 for? Is either program (or both programs?) required in the editing/authoring process?

What do you use for burning the resulting file--whether "shrunk" with DVDShrink or not?

I downloaded both VideoRedo and TMPGenc MPEG Editor. VideoRedo opened the video right up in edit mode; however, I found the editing process non-intuitive--almost like Nano PEG. Don't shoot me! Just my first impression. I'll keep working with it.

TMPGenc MPEG Editor required a few more steps to get going, but thereafter I found the editing process to be a breeze. Something strange though; after editing a 90-minute (4GB) MPEG file down to 15-minutes, the resulting MPEG file was still almost 1GB. This is with the default settings. Perhaps I missed something? I'm a little uncomfortable with TMPGenc's help files; it's obvious that they were translated from Japanese, with mixed results. I understand there's some concern over their continuous online license checks, too.

Oh yeah: I haven't used BTV's SmartSkip function yet, but if VideoRedo works with it, that would be a definite plus. How does SmartSkip "sense" the commercials and how reliably?

[ejdriscoll]

I only use VideoRedo and I can only answer some of those questions, to wit:

- Yes, VideoRedo requires a separate program for authoring/burning the DVD. I believe that the same is true of Womble. I personally use DVD Movie Factory to author and burn, but that's mainly because it came bundled with my DVD drive and it does what I want, I didn't actually have to shell out for it. I probably would have been equally satisifed with Nero (also a common bundle-in) if I hadn't happened to learn DVDMF first.

- VideoRedo does NOT work with WMV files.

- The reliability of BTV's SmartSkip is hit-and-miss. In about 50% of the programs I record it detects the commercials perfectly, and in the other 50% it misses some of them and/or mis-marks their start and end. Other users tend to report similar reliability (overall). I *think* it does this by detecting the scene transition and fails on the programs where the commercials are butted right up to the program with no transition in between.

[Josch]

Yeah, that's why I don't like the smartskip function either. On a lot of the channels I watch, BTV never gets it right. So I prefer to manually do it. I am so good at it now that I can edit very fast.

I personally use BTV to capture, TMPGenc mpeg editor to bleep, DVD Movie Factory to build the iso image from the mpeg(s), DVD shrink to shrink (if necessary- most the time I prefer not to shrink, and rather use 2 discs, but if it almost fits, then I shrink it), then I use Roxio DVD builder ONLY to burn the resulting .iso image that I already have on file, but I only use Roxio for that because it came with my DVD burner. I can't stand the Roxio DVD builder to author though. It is major cumbersome to use. I know it seems like a lot of steps, but I got it down to a system. I always set something in motion, then go do something else, and when it gets done, I usually come back in a couple minutes, and set the other process in motion, and it doesn't take long for me to make a very high quality DVD


PS- Nicole Kiddman is a dog, so I don't understand what to make of that other comment I seen before regarding her. I think she is hard to look at w/ that mole on her face (sickning). My wife is way way hotter than her.

[cgwaters]

Originally Posted by Josch

I also have 3.0 Xpress and that program is more of a program to change file formats from one to another. Like for example, I use it to convert my raw .avi files from my camcorder to mpeg format so I can then burn to disc in DVD format.

So if I have a bunch of AVI files, would I need to use something like TMPGEnc 3.0 Xpress to convert it to a format (MPEG?) that can be used by TMPGEnc MPEG Editor?

[Atomic Dawg]

Originally Posted by cgwaters

So if I have a bunch of AVI files, would I need to use something like TMPGEnc 3.0 Xpress to convert it to a format (MPEG?) that can be used by TMPGEnc MPEG Editor?

Normally, I think you would edit the AVI file first and then encode to reduce encoding time. But, since there is no loss of quality with editors that do not re-encode like VideoRedo, TMPGEnc MPEG Editor and MPEG-VCR, it's no big deal. Just a matter of saving time...

Concerning the editors you mentioned. I have tried all three using their trial periods and have come to some conclusions. Someday, I'll write a detailed review but here is a summary:

TMPGEnc MPEG Editor: If I had to pick an editor today, this is the one I would choose. It's got a few features I really like. Displaying the audio graphically with the frames is really, really helpful. It allows you to catch those commercials where the audio starts before the picture fades in. The film strip is a helpful tool also. I liked the ability to move to the approximate location with the slider, move forward or backward by clicking the right mouse button on the film strip and then clicking a frame on the film strip to get right to where I want to be. Very fast! I also like how there are little marks left where the file was cut. Those are great for going back and verifying the cuts. I didn't find any bugs. You are absolutely right about their marketing. Their overlapping products tend to confuse customers. (Myself included.)

VideoRedo: A very good editor. It would be my second choice. The ability to use the SmartSkip file from BeyondTV would be the most awesome feature ever if SmartSkip was accurate. Since it's not (at least for me), this feature isn't that useful. I didn't come across any bugs.

MPEG-VCR: There are a few things I liked about MPEG-VCR from Womble. The program itself is very fast. It seemed to move forward and backward through a file at an almost equal speed. Also, it can write a 1.2GB file in 2+ minutes. The other two editors took about 4+ minutes. MPEG-VCR seems to have some advanced features but it's not very intuitive. I tried to create batch jobs but an error would pop up and boot me out of the program. To be fair, I haven't thoroughly read the documentation but still, there shouldn't be any errors that boot you out of the program. If price is an issue, this is the most expensive editor. Speaking of marketing departments that need overhauls... Womble's website looks like it was put together in 15 minutes. Plus, I think I could come up with a better name than MPEG-VCR.

The reviews above are just general impressions. Nothing technical. Also, I really didn't consider features beyond cutting MPEG files created with my PVR-250 and BeyondTV. Anyway, take it easy!

[cgwaters]

Originally Posted by Atomic Dawg

Normally, I think you would edit the AVI file first and then encode to reduce encoding time. But, since there is no loss of quality with editors that do not re-encode like VideoRedo, TMPGEnc MPEG Editor and MPEG-VCR, it's no big deal. Just a matter of saving time...

Concerning the editors you mentioned. I have tried all three using their trial periods and have come to some conclusions. Someday, I'll write a detailed review but here is a summary:
...
The reviews above are just general impressions. Nothing technical. Also, I really didn't consider features beyond cutting MPEG files created with my PVR-250 and BeyondTV. Anyway, take it easy!

Thanks for the detailed review! I, too, am primarily interested in editing MPEG files created with my PVR-250 and BTV. However, I have some AVI files that I'd like to edit, too. I'm not sure I understand the first part of your message. Can TMPGenc MPEG Editor open/edit AVI files? If not, are you suggesting converting from AVI to MPEG? If so, can you recommend a tool? Is that the purpose of TMPGEnc's Plus 2.5 / 3.0 XPress?

[Atomic Dawg]

First of all, let me say that I am still kind of new to this. I'm by no means an expert in video editing.

With that said, let me give you the short answer: Use VirtualDubMod. It's free.

Now for the long answer. What is an AVI file? Here's what www.doom9.org had to say in their glossary:

AVI - Audio Video Interleave. The video format most commonly used on Windows PC's. It defines how video and audio are attached to each other, without specifying a codec.

So, an AVI can be many things. The video can be compressed with Divx, xvid, huffyuv, WMV9 and the list goes on. It can even be uncompressed. The same goes for the audio. There are various codecs used.

Next, realize that most codecs are lossy. When you covert source material to a lossy format such as Divx or MPEG2, information is lost usually in an attempt to reduce file size. Each time a file is converted into a lossy format, the video is degraded.

Let's assume the AVI files you want to edit are compressed with one of the popular mpeg-4 codecs. (divx or xvid) You wouldn't want to convert to MPEG2 just to edit because MPEG2 is a lossy format and the picture will further degrade. If you want to keep it in its AVI format, just cut it using VirtualDubMod.

Now, maybe you want to convert it to MPEG2 anyway because you want to create a SVCD or DVD. I would cut the AVI first using VirtualDubMod and then convert to MPEG2 in order to save time. For example, let's say I downloaded an episode of Saturday Night Live and I want to cut out a specific skit and create a SVCD. Rather than converting a 1.5 hour show to MPEG2 and then cutting it with an MPEG2 editor, I would cut out the skit from the AVI file using VirtualDubMod and then convert that to MPEG2. Here's the point: encoding or re-encoding takes a long time. It's better to cut and re-encode a small file than it is to re-encode a large file and cut that.

Or course, if you only want to delete 5 minutes from an hour show, the time savings from cutting the AVI first and then converting would be negligible. If you find it easier to edit the MPEG2 file, go for it.

To my knowledge, TMPEGnc MPEG Editor can not edit AVI files. (Neither can the other MPEG2 editors.) I haven't used TMPGEnc's Plus 2.5 or 3.0 XPress so I can't make an informed comment. I know they're used to convert source material to MPEG1 or MPEG2. However, I think they can do more than that. For instance, the Pegasys website says MPEG Editor was created from an editor included with TMPGEnc Plus 2.5. Additionally, I've seen online guides that seem to use the free version of TMPGEnc as a front end to create AVI files. Since our PVR-250's record stuff in MPEG2, I haven't had the need for a MPEG2 encoder. I've been knee deep in learning how to convert the MPEG2 files into MPEG4 files using Avisynth, VirtualDubMod and Xvid.

[cgwaters]

>>With that said, let me give you the short answer: Use VirtualDubMod. It's free.

I'll look into VirtualDubMod. Is it yet another editor? If so, how does it compare to TMPEGnc MPEG Editor?

[Atomic Dawg]

Originally Posted by cgwaters

Is it yet another editor? If so, how does it compare to TMPEGnc MPEG Editor?

As an editor, VirtualDubMod isn't much to look at when compared to something like TMPEGnc MPEG Editor. However, simple editing in not it's only purpose. And remember...it's free!

[cgwaters]

I think I understand. So are you suggesting using VirtualDubMod to edit AVI files and TMPEGnc MPEG Editor to edit MPG files?

Do you have any experience with SuperAVConverter (http://www.mysupersoft.com)?