Thumbs up for Nvidia's new DVD decoder

[Crooze]

Originally Posted by darren_e

Details of this driver states that it works with ATI Radeon cards. I tried this out and set up the configuration .xml file to see the codec in BTV.

Though it may be possible, I couldn't get this to work. In fact, with this program installed, I couldn't get BTV to go into live TV at all. Only until I uninstalled these drivers did I get things working again.

It worked for me. I really didn't see a difference in the picture quality. Then again it looked pretty good before.

[tokarl]

This is the best "tweek" EVER for BTV. I went from having a choppy screen (using the newest Hauppauge drivers and Hardware acc on setting = good) to perfect pictures with great quality and sharpness (hardware acc on and setting = best on recording). This post should become a sticy !!!!!!!!!!!


For the record. I'm using FX5500 video card, Hauppauge PVR350, AMD 2400+ Mobile XP processor.

[pinoy2]

I downloaded and installed NVIDIA decoder after reading it here, but for the life of me, I can't find the CustomSettings.xml file. Could someone please tell me where it is located. I've searched my hard drive but nowhere it is to be found!

[MannyTC]

Originally Posted by pinoy2

I downloaded and installed NVIDIA decoder after reading it here, but for the life of me, I can't find the CustomSettings.xml file. Could someone please tell me where it is located. I've searched my hard drive but nowhere it is to be found!

Re-read this thread. The answers you are looking for are here. The folder where the customsettings file is located is a hidden folder. Set you OS to show hidden files/folders and you will find it.

[emg178]

If you can't find the file and you are using windows 2000, try looking in the folder:
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users.WinNT\Application Data\SnapStream\Beyond TV\
That is where it was on my box. Note the All Users.WinNT folder.

Anyway, I tried it out with BTV, and the playback was worse than the intervideo decoders. I'm using a celeron 1.7, Gigabit mobo, ATI all in Wonder 8500dv for display and Hauppauge pvr 250 for encoding. The nvidia decoder 'worked' I guess, but playback was choppy and the brightness was fluctuating. It really looked a lot worse than the intervideo decoder.

[Rich A]

Originally Posted by emg178

If you can't find the file and you are using windows 2000, try looking in the folder:
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users.WinNT\Application Data\SnapStream\Beyond TV\
That is where it was on my box. Note the All Users.WinNT folder.

Anyway, I tried it out with BTV, and the playback was worse than the intervideo decoders. I'm using a celeron 1.7, Gigabit mobo, ATI all in Wonder 8500dv for display and Hauppauge pvr 250 for encoding. The nvidia decoder 'worked' I guess, but playback was choppy and the brightness was fluctuating. It really looked a lot worse than the intervideo decoder.

I still don't understand why guys with Non-Nvidia video boards are even trying this? This decoder was (AFAIK) designed to make use of on-video card firmware to enhance decoding. Perhaps it may work as a "generic" software codec with other manufacturer's cards, but trying to use it with them certainly can't work well. Not as well as the video it was designed for.

Using the logic that seems to previal here, everyone with an ATI video card should chuck the ATI drivers and use other video card drivers. That ain't gonna work. This "codec" was written, designed and produced to utilize the specific hardware architecture of THEIR products .. NVidia video cards. Or am I just mis-informed ?? (I've been wrong before .. )

[darren_e]

Originally Posted by Rich A

I still don't understand why guys with Non-Nvidia video boards are even trying this? This decoder was (AFAIK) designed to make use of on-video card firmware to enhance decoding. Perhaps it may work as a "generic" software codec with other manufacturer's cards, but trying to use it with them certainly can't work well. Not as well as the video it was designed for.

Using the logic that seems to previal here, everyone with an ATI video card should chuck the ATI drivers and use other video card drivers. That ain't gonna work. This "codec" was written, designed and produced to utilize the specific hardware architecture of THEIR products .. NVidia video cards. Or am I just mis-informed ?? (I've been wrong before .. )

(read this with a sense of humor)

Just for the record, Mr. Spock
Logic didn't prevail here because nVidia's website said the codec worked with both cards. With ATI not providing as stellar of a picture as we would like without playback issues, we're willing to test out as many possibilities as we can.
I've expended all of my resources and I've come to the conclusion that my best interest is to invest in an nVidia card. Which of course means spending even *MORE* money than what I have already invested in already.
As an ATI user and someone who isn't afraid to tweak a system, this was a last ditch effort and a pathetic attempt resurrect my ATI into "near HDTV bliss" without annoying video playback issues.

I'm now on a quest to find out how well this nVidia Pure Video works using the GeForce 6 series cards and Beyond TV.

[emg178]

Originally Posted by Rich A

I still don't understand why guys with Non-Nvidia video boards are even trying this? This decoder was (AFAIK) designed to make use of on-video card firmware to enhance decoding. Perhaps it may work as a "generic" software codec with other manufacturer's cards, but trying to use it with them certainly can't work well. Not as well as the video it was designed for.

Using the logic that seems to previal here, everyone with an ATI video card should chuck the ATI drivers and use other video card drivers. That ain't gonna work. This "codec" was written, designed and produced to utilize the specific hardware architecture of THEIR products .. NVidia video cards. Or am I just mis-informed ?? (I've been wrong before .. )

Sounds like you don't have much experience with an ATI all in wonder card and the corresponding set of crap that ATI passes off as drivers. Also sounds like you didn't read Nvidia's web site, as the above poster points out.
You also didn't know this, but snapstream tech support suggested that I try the Nvidia codec, although they said that it would probably only work w/ 9000 + boards. I believe that the ati website must say that it supports directx 9 instructions (in hardware) for it to work well w/ Nvidia, as that is what Nvidia's site says.
Anyway, what manufacturers web sites claim, and actual experience often don't match too well if you can even fully understand these claims, which is why personal experience w/ specific hardware is helpfull. That is what these forumns are about. I expect that some people w/ ati aiw 8500dv boards will repeat my experiment just hoping... However, at least if they read this, they will not expect it to work.

[Rich A]

Originally Posted by emg178

Sounds like you don't have much experience with an ATI all in wonder card and the corresponding set of crap that ATI passes off as drivers. Also sounds like you didn't read Nvidia's web site, as the above poster points out.
You also didn't know this, but snapstream tech support suggested that I try the Nvidia codec, although they said that it would probably only work w/ 9000 + boards. I believe that the ati website must say that it supports directx 9 instructions (in hardware) for it to work well w/ Nvidia, as that is what Nvidia's site says.
Anyway, what manufacturers web sites claim, and actual experience often don't match too well if you can even fully understand these claims, which is why personal experience w/ specific hardware is helpfull. That is what these forumns are about. I expect that some people w/ ati aiw 8500dv boards will repeat my experiment just hoping... However, at least if they read this, they will not expect it to work.

Thanks for the information. Yes you are correct that I really didn't investigate the Nvidia web site. I have done so and now understand this supposedly ATI compatibilty thing.. However I am VERY familiar with the ATI products. So much so I had a web site that was referenced by a couple national magazines as a great place for technical information regarding capture problems with the All In Wonder series of ATI Cards. In fact, I stopped about a year or so ago updating it, because people were emailing me saying the ATI TECHNCIANS were referring them to my site for "advanced" or custom work involving capture. I was at one time averaging over a few hundred emails a week. and finally decided to stop (cuz ATI wasn't paying me to solve their problems <grin>) and it was becoming more of a job than a hobby.

Now much of that web site is now dated, and I really "got away from it" just after the Radeon series came out. I only leave it there for users of older ATI AIW cards reference. I honestly haven't kept up with things. I still own about 6 different versions of the All In Wonder and have a 9000 series AIW in my multimedia editing machine. I use that to create very high quality DVD mpeg for special projects like home video conversion, etc. The Mpeg-2 when properly set up with that unit is really better than most that I've seen when used in that scenario. Their latest version of MMC is really very good. And from what I've seen in the last year or so, their move to a more "unified" driver set has been a big improvement.
FWIW I never had the myriad of problems others had with things like audio sync and such. But I helped many ATI owners get their systems straightened out. My CHOICE of record for my HTPC work is NVidia video. And today, for capturing mpeg where you need real time capture and low CPU use, the obvious choice is most any of the hardware based capture/turner cards. I DID run my ATI 9000 AIW with SS programs some time ago while investigating (just to satisfy my curiosity) Had excellent results with both capture and playback .. albeit feature limited because of the relatively high CPU use I needed to do full screen DVD proper high bit rate capture.

I will take another look at today's technology involving these things, but I do have to note one thing. The guys running this software based DVD decoder on Nvidia based video cards seem to have a whole lot less problems with it.

Sorry for the off topic ..and you were half right. BTW, you mentioned the 8500DV. When that card first came out, some people had a lot of trouble with it tuning stations and getting decent captures. I "borrowed" one from the shop and found it was very sensitive to rf level excursions when driven by an analog cable or off the air RF that varied in signal strength. In fact I "fixed" this problem for many people who could not get any help from ATI. Since then of course ATI has "discovered" what I found. That's why the 8500DV was (I believe) the only AIW card with a discreet electronic tuner. After the 8500DV they went back to the more tolerent Philips type tuner "cans".

Just because the software is designed to be compatible with certain types of manufacturer's cards doesn't mean it will work the same on each. Each manufacturer's "implementation" of things like DirectX and use of various filters can be different. I know these things are supposed to be "standardized" but my experience has shown not everyone uses the standards the same way.

I still say Nvidia wants to support their OWN products and you'll find in reality when all is said and done, that the product will work "best" with the manufacturer's own products. Sure they want to sell a DVD codec. But they are of course, in the business of manufacturing video cards more so than software. Maybe they are making a mistake by even suggesting it can be used with ATI Radeons? (my own opinion) Why the heck would a video card manufacturer made a low cost "solution" that makes it competitor's product work better? Well I'm not in marketing .. and like I said, "I have been known to be wrong". Oh, and maybe the guys who are getting better results using this with their ATI, never had the ATI set up correctly in the first place. Like "Judy the goddess of love" was oft to say .. "It could happen".

[emg178]

Rich, thanks for your detailed response. How about a link to that website? I do agree that the drivers / codecs released by the manufacturer *should* work better than codecs / drivers from third party folks. However, ATI was referring people to your site for their tech support; that says something about their ability to use their own product. Perhaps their software is fine now, but I've been using all in wonders for 4 years now. I don't pretend to have the kind of experience that you have. However, over that time, both cards that I have used were released w/ very buggy software. Even if it worked, I could only describe it as crap relative to snapstream products. Now, my mode of operation is to stick w/ snapstream, and get hardware / decoders that work the best w/ their products.
Although, I would much prefer getting an nvidia card, it looks like I may be stuck w/ ati for now, b/c I have only component inputs on the hdtv.

[vogelap]

So, what's the general consensus about this driver's utility for those who have, let's say, an ATI Radeon 9600XT installed along with a PVR250?

[darren_e]

Originally Posted by vogelap

So, what's the general consensus about this driver's utility for those who have, let's say, an ATI Radeon 9600XT installed along with a PVR250?

Drew, I have the 9600XT as my video playback card. Yes, it works and works quite well with S-Video but going to HDTV resolutions above 800x600 (requireing a DVI cable or component adapter/transcoder) results in video blurring, horizontal lines, choppy playback, and other minor quirks.

Researching will drive you nuts. It's come down to VMR9 & DirectX 9.0c for ATI 9X00 cards- nothing you can do about it and I have yet to hear back from ATI on this.
I'm starting to think that ATI/nVidia realize this problem and are taking advantage of it by making their newest line of cards compatible- forcing the consumer to buy a newer card instead of the old.

I've succumbed and I'm researching dumping my ATI in favor of an nVidia AGP 6600 card.

[vogelap]

Darren... Thanks for the info. In your first paragraph, are you saying that the ATI 9600XT card ITSELF is ill-suited for HDTV resolutions, or are you saying that the Nvidia DVD decoder & ATI 9600XT card (combination) are bad for HDTV resolutions?

What is your opinion as to the best decoder for HDTV resolutions with this current setup?

Since you've also got the ATI 9600XT, I am very interested to hear your opinion of the quality/feature differences you find between that card and whatever nvidia card you get. Please keep me posted.

[Rich A]

Originally Posted by emg178

Rich, thanks for your detailed response. How about a link to that website? I do agree that the drivers / codecs released by the manufacturer *should* work better than codecs / drivers from third party folks. However, ATI was referring people to your site for their tech support; that says something about their ability to use their own product. Perhaps their software is fine now, but I've been using all in wonders for 4 years now. I don't pretend to have the kind of experience that you have. However, over that time, both cards that I have used were released w/ very buggy software. Even if it worked, I could only describe it as crap relative to snapstream products. Now, my mode of operation is to stick w/ snapstream, and get hardware / decoders that work the best w/ their products.
Although, I would much prefer getting an nvidia card, it looks like I may be stuck w/ ati for now, b/c I have only component inputs on the hdtv.

Sorry I've been away for a while and haven't checked in for day or so. I stopped work on the web page about the same time I started working on the home theater. Most of what's there is very dated but there are tibits of things for guys with pre-radeon cards and other DVD/SVCD stuff in general. The URL is www.pcphotovideo.com There is a link on the main page to the old ATI page as well.

I'm off to download the Nidia decoder right now. I've been meaning to do that. As I mentioned, I also have an AIW Radeon but it's not set up for annything other than video editing and conversion. But I will test it with that.

As for some other recent posts .. I doubt it will work well with anything needed HDTV resolution. My own HTPC is set at 800x600 as that is the native res of my projector. The display on the 84 inch screen is however outstanding. I'm going to be adding the AIT HD-Wonder for off the air HD reception. Being a ham, I naturally choose to build my house near the top of the biggest hill I could find. I can receive all the major networks over the air with excellent signals (CBS, NBC and ABC) who are broadcasting some HDTV content. Although my PJ is 800x600 resident, it will display up to 1080i content really nice.

[darren_e]

Originally Posted by vogelap

Darren... Thanks for the info. In your first paragraph, are you saying that the ATI 9600XT card ITSELF is ill-suited for HDTV resolutions, or are you saying that the Nvidia DVD decoder & ATI 9600XT card (combination) are bad for HDTV resolutions?

What is your opinion as to the best decoder for HDTV resolutions with this current setup?

Since you've also got the ATI 9600XT, I am very interested to hear your opinion of the quality/feature differences you find between that card and whatever nvidia card you get. Please keep me posted.

I'm not getting the quality I want with my 9600XT- I mean I am getting good quality, but it gets jumpy if I pause or change channels. I have to FF a couple of times to get it back in sync.

I'm doing my research to find out if it's worth purchasing a new GeForce 6600 GT (AGP) card since reading about nVidias new drivers and this so called "pure video" feature which I think is appealing- if my research concludes that this works well with BTV...

So, I guess I'm saying I feel I have tweaked my card to it's fullest potential and it's still not satisfying my thirst for "Pseudo HDTV Bliss."

My card meaning the ATI 9600XT.