AMD vs. Intel - which is best for HTPC?

[Cliffie]

I just purchased a new case, going to build a true HTPC that matches the rest of my equipment, capable of running multi-tuners, multiple hard drives and optical drives. I do alot of showsqueeze, and I was wondering which is the better performer. Currently, I have Athlon XP's, but I'm wondering if I should give the P4's a try. My main goals are to quickly run chapters, showsqeeze, while at the same time trying to run as quietly as possible. That means trying to find the coolest running cpu as possible. How do the 533 p4's stack up to the 800's when processing video? Are the intle's with hyper-threading faster than the same speed AMD's? Will a 3400 be significantly faster than a 2800? Or should I consider a 64 bit Athlon?

If anyone has opinions or experience with different brand/models of cpu's, I'd like to hear them before I spend my hard earned cash.

Thanks

[berg]

My only comments is a rather lightly educated one ...

From what I understand about the P4s, they perform better than an "equivalent" AMD processor when it comes to audio/video content, particularly when it comes to encoding, etc. (The real processor intensive stuff ...). If I recall, the difference is even greater when it comes to Windows Media encoding.

Now, for the problem ... I recall having heard and read this several times over the last year, but can't remember a particular item to refer you to.

I would Google and visit the usual places, like Tom's Hardware, etc.

I hope it helps and that I am not too far off the mark.

I'm others will chime in

[Cliffie]

Currently, I'm running snapstream on 2 boxes, AMD 2400+, and a AMD 2600+ barton. Compressing video seems to take way too long. Basically, I'm wondering if anyone is running the p4 with the hyper threading, or an athlon 64, and what kind of luck are they having. As for the heat, I think the new p4s run as hot as the athlons, but I need to look around to confirm this.

[berg]

Most folks are using their graphics card to do the hardware accelerated decoding (hwmc/dxva options)

Sorry - I should have made my comment clearer - I was really talking about encoding, and not decoding. I agree with Merrypig, most folks are (and the others should be ... )using the video card for decoding.

So, my point was that if you intend to use the re-compression option when using a hardware encoder card, or using a software encoding card, the P4s might have a performance edge (That's a big might)

Compressing video seems to take way too long. Basically, I'm wondering if anyone is running the p4

I have a P4 (2.6) without HT but with plenty of RAM (784 Meg) and re-compression into DivX or WM takes too long. I have given up and simply added bigger hard drive

I still "dream" of a day where I might bring content with me on a handheld (like my iPaq) or on my laptop, but I haven't found the right solution YET. Maybe I am just too impatient ?!?

[Cliffie]

I don't convert everything to wmv just yet, and so far my system has been able to keep up. I just let it crunch 24/7, doesn't seem to interfere with it's day to day operation. Basically, I want the most bang for my buck. I'd like the chapters generated as quick as possible. And, with the addition of multiple tuners in the next version, I can see me recording even more. Currently, I have 260 gig in my shuttle box, with only 40 gig or so left free. I seem to be a packrat when it comes to recordings, I save alot.

My normal thing is to just go out and grab what is cheapest and will work, but this time around I've decided to do my homework. I've ordered the silverstone HTPC case in black, and I'm currently researching what else is going in the box. I could use my current mobo and parts, but I want to make sure the box is quiet, will meet all my needs, and won't require any upgrades for a while.

[nanook105]

I believe that Intel runs cooler, and requires less noise/fans to keep it stable. I have not seen any difference in preformance for recompression, but since I have never gotten a good/usable DiVX recompression, I don't recompress often, and just keep buying more hard drives (currenly up to over 700 GIG on each on my PVRs). I also have fan controls on both of my PVRs, and turn them way down, so they are very quiet.

[HideOut]

Certain chips from either company are favorable. If your going to do compression to DiVX or something then the faster ya get in chip speed the faster you'll be. The mighty A64 is actually not as fast as the equivilant P4 (IE 3400+ VS 3.4C or E) in encoding. Gaming and CPU stuff is the other way around. Either way, they are resonably close. Right now I'd say a P4 3.0C is about the right bang for the buck and still getting good speed.

Cliffe, I like that case. Antec has a nice one thats a bit cheaper (cheaper made as well though) that with a 380W psu is about $91. Its called the Overture. There is another version of this case thats not listed on this site that is mATX only too. This link is a link to Directron's desktop/HTPC selection. Check them out. TONS of cases from nearly everyone that sells in the USA. Also note the Coolermaster ATC-620C-BX1 in black aluminum. No psu but you can get that anywhere cause it takes a standard ATX PSU. There is a cheaper version of this in steel that looks identical too. This thing is a perfect match to a Harmon Kardon AMP. Fashioned just like them. Drawback to me is the smallish 60mm fan. The Antec has a 92mm smartfan. Larger fans move more air with less noise.

http://directron.com/desktop.html

HideOut

PS, forgot another CPU option. If ya want a quite cool AMD system look for the 1700+ JIUHB chip. Mine is %40 overclocked and still only gets about 40 degrees celcius under load and only 2 case fans total. It encodes ok but @ 2.2ghz it wont compare to the newer chips. But for playback only its great or single function BTV. For the divx part build a stronger/louder system and hide it in the house somewhere, use windows shares and stream them to your PC. You guys should learn the art of the modded XBOX and windows shares.... :-D

[berg]

btw, remember that BTV's transcoding runs at a low priority so as not to rock the boat, so the encoding times you're seeing aren't really reflective of the cpu power anyway.

Excellent point !

[Cliffie]

Originally Posted by merrypig

btw, remember that BTV's transcoding runs at a low priority so as not to rock the boat, so the encoding times you're seeing aren't really reflective of the cpu power anyway.

That makes sense. That's why I was wondering if the P4 with hyper threading would speed up the encoding, seeing that it acts like it's 2 seperate cpu's. All the benchmarks I've seen just shows how it performs running 1 app. I'd like to know how the p4's with hyper threading perfrom in the real world. I almost hate building a system now with all the new stuff that is suppose to be coming out - 64 bit windows and cpu's, PCI express, the new BTX form factor, etc. . . I think for now, I may stick with my 2400+, upgrade the ram from pc133 to ddr, and wait to see what happens in the pc market.

[mcowger]

http://www.2cpu.com/articles/ht_explored/ht_4.html

Look at the benchmarks at the bottom of the page. My guess is you'll see a max of about 7-9% increase.

[wj_hunter]

I have 2 AMD powered boxes. Zero problems with the chips. Bought the first one in 1998, still runs fine. :-)

I also agree with the point made above about windows shares. Works great.
My media server is headless, I use remote desktop when I need to login (rarely).

Heat is not a problem with the latest AMD chips. I am running a "silent cooler" for my XP 3000+ and the whole machine is quiet. It is built around a Antec Sonata case. The part making the most noise is the fan on the ATI video card. I could buy a aftermarket fan for that, but it is quiet enough for my living room already.

One day, I'll get my system specs in my tagline like everybody else.

Look at this table @ http://www.silentpcreview.com/module...rtid=31&page=1
(Silentpcreview.com - CPUs ranked by heat / noise - updated 3/6/2004)

Have Fun,
Jeff

[fester]

P4 usually KICKS AMD XP. Youd be foolish to purchase AMD XP at this point in the tech cycle. OK, XP 2200 tbred + mobo at fry's this weekend is $59 bucks. Now thats a good deal! Disclaimer: AMD64 setup KICKS Intel ASS

P4 533 ('B') and 800MHz ('C') FSB CPU's very good for memory performance, APU/FPU performance, *and* gaming and mpeg encode is off the charts compared to any AMD XP rig - since AMD XP has exactly 1/2 the memory throughput. I do have both setups. Currently running: xp2600, xp1900, p4 2.4B and p4 3.0 C systems.

see for yourself at any review geek site (toms hardware, anandtech, etc...). This battle was over in 2003. so go AMD64 or P4C.

[fester]

YAWN. actually - this battle was over in 2002 when 533fsb p4 systems began to kill amd - and then in 12/02 - i875p, 800fsb, dual channel systems clearly put the nail in the amdXP coffin. barry sanders had nothing until amd64. thankfully the battle is on again and amd looks good - at least until pentiumM desktop...

http://theinquirer.net/

IT'S ALL HERE. (the best rag for chip news)

[kleenkut 1977]

I agree with Fester and the Intel Supporters. I have AMD XP 1600+. I performs great with BTV, but thinking about the future. Showsqueezing, dual tuners, BTV Media, and etc. I am going with Intel P4 (800 fsb w/ HT). Amd doesn't handle multi-tasking that well. If I try to burn a dvd while running Snapstream or even just using Nero to burn a cd. The end result is usually a messed up cd or dvd. With the dvd the audio and video ends up out of sync or the cd ends up with skips. I need to be able to multi-task. But on the otherhand, I am trying to wait on some of those new technologies that are being promised. PCI Express, new cpu's, and Windows XP 64 bit. I so sick of waiting!!!! I went on ahead and order Firefly because I need something new to challenge me until dual tuners come out. Just a few thoughts.

[pretzelb]

I asked this same question a while ago in a few different boards and I think Intel does perform better but many like AMD because it's a better value. One place to do some research is http://www.anandtech.com/index.html if you're into the specifications. I hear some complain about TomsHardware but not many complain about AnandTech. They seem similar to me.

However, my research shows that the P4 runs hotter than the latest AMD64 chips, or at least certain AMD64 chips and certain P4 chips. A great source of information on this topic is http://www.silentpcreview.com . They are fanatic about noise. The big source of noise in a pc is cooling devices so they are also very crazy about heat.

I think if you compared similar chips you'd find the P4 outperforms the AMD64 in video encoding. But the P4 may end up costing more. It may also not perform as well as the AMD64 on other applications. It's a very back and forth argument. Depending on how long you want the hardware to last, it may come down to price and heat.

I would stay away from the Overture if I were you. I have one and it's very poorly ventilated. I used to have my htpc running F@H 24/7 in a tower case but now it hits the same temperature (52c) when running idle in the Overture. No more folding on the htpc.