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  #31  
Old 09-05-2011, 12:20 AM
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Nick Burns Nick Burns is offline
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Re: Google buys SageTV

The decline and fall of TiVo and Media Center

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Bott
Summary: The DVR is an endangered species. TiVo, the company that defined the category a decade ago, is on the ropes, and Microsoft has all but declared Media Center a legacy app. A comparison of the two technologies explains why.
Snapstream really does have the advantage here to overtake the consumer DVR sector if they would just take their heads out of the sand.
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  #32  
Old 09-05-2011, 07:47 AM
vidiot1985 vidiot1985 is offline
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Re: Google buys SageTV

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Originally Posted by Nick Burns View Post
The decline and fall of TiVo and Media Center



Snapstream really does have the advantage here to overtake the consumer DVR sector if they would just take their heads out of the sand.
The way I read that article, the consumer DVR sector is dying so why would SnapStream want to invest in and overtake it?

After I gave up cable, I still use BTV quite a bit for broadcast channels. But far more of my household's video entertainment comes via on-demand streaming.

I can see DVRs having a background role as a local buffer to augment streaming and provide on-demand or a la carte delivery (e.g. subscribe to a show you like and the DVR gets them as soon as they are available as possible) and maybe conversion for mobile device storage (I don't buy into this cloud video for mobile devices thing yet). Yes, BeyondTV kinda sorta does this if you squint real hard, but is still entirely reliant on content delivery in the cable/sat/broadcoast model.

If I could have something like a Netflix or iTunes interface to describe the content I want and let the system get it for me as soon as it is available and in the formats I want, cheaply, that will win the game that is worth winning (from the consumer perspective--the content providers and their current delivery vehicles likely have other ideas to deny this to us).
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  #33  
Old 09-05-2011, 08:27 AM
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Re: Google buys SageTV

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Originally Posted by vidiot1985 View Post
The way I read that article, the consumer DVR sector is dying so why would SnapStream want to invest in and overtake it?
The article seemed extremely vague when it came to the 'why' portion of its statistics. It seems to me that while streaming is becoming more popular, the likely culprit behind the fall of Tivo (and WMC, which is *way* harder for the average consumer to wrap their heads around) is the proliferation of DVRs provided by big cable and the satellite companies (and FIOS, altho that's still a relatively small segment). People want stuff to be easy - if your service provider gives you a magic box that integrates seamlessly into your existing service, why would you say "no thanks" and then go thru the hassle of setting up your own solution?

Note that I *am* one of the people, like you guys, who will go to the effort to DIY but that's not reality for most consumers.
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  #34  
Old 09-05-2011, 01:20 PM
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Re : Re: Google buys SageTV

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Originally Posted by Nick Burns View Post
Snapstream really does have the advantage here to overtake the consumer DVR sector if they would just take their heads out of the sand.
If SnapStream had indeed merged BTV and BM, as well as allowed the NetFlix streaming and such, then they would have been in a good position for it. But currently they just aren't in any position to provide what the consumers would need to replace TiVo and such...
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  #35  
Old 09-07-2011, 07:46 PM
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Re: Google buys SageTV

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Originally Posted by optikhog View Post
the likely culprit behind the fall of Tivo (and WMC, which is *way* harder for the average consumer to wrap their heads around) is the proliferation of DVRs provided by big cable and the satellite companies (and FIOS, altho that's still a relatively small segment). People want stuff to be easy
This is what I think has happened. People want easy to use stuff, because let's face it, most people are "dumb" when it comes to VCR's, DVR's, and the like. And if it weren't for Netflix streaming via Wii and other easy to use devices, that wouldn't have taken off either. I know lots of people with their cable company's DVR, but very few who routinely stream.

There are certainly people who have given up paying for cable TV (or satellite, whatever), and stream most of their content, but I think their numbers aren't that big yet, and I guess they don't care about quality. I will stream a missed show occasionally if need be, but even with 20Mbps Fios speed it's still jerky sometimes and the video quality isn't that high. Why buy a big screen TV and then watch crap on it? I want HIGH DEF on my HDTV, so I'll gladly pay the price for cable TV.

But I digress. I just don't think enough people are streaming TV to have caused the downfall. But it wouldn't surprise me if TPTB who tout "the cloud" and streaming would proclaim the DVR market is dead long before it really is, to push their agenda.

Okay, time to get back to my truly high def recordings!
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  #36  
Old 09-08-2011, 12:50 PM
vidiot1985 vidiot1985 is offline
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Re: Google buys SageTV

I think it's a combination of cable/sat company DVRs being simpler (and cheaper) to GET, rather than simpler to USE, than Tivo where commonly, you have to buy the Tivo at a store, then get a special install from the cable company for CableCards, and setup a service account with Tivo, and streaming (what is it, like 50-70% of U.S. Internet traffic during evening hours is Netflix?)

As for wanting to watch high def on my big screen TV, obviously that's the ideal, but I care first about the content rather than the video quality.

With cable, I cannot get much of the content I want, let alone when I want, period. So it doesn't matter how great the cable TV picture quality is.

Last edited by vidiot1985; 09-08-2011 at 07:16 PM.
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  #37  
Old 09-09-2011, 02:30 PM
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Re: Google buys SageTV

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Originally Posted by vidiot1985 View Post
I think it's a combination of cable/sat company DVRs being simpler (and cheaper) to GET, rather than simpler to USE, than Tivo where commonly, you have to buy the Tivo at a store, then get a special install from the cable company for CableCards, and setup a service account with Tivo, and streaming (what is it, like 50-70% of U.S. Internet traffic during evening hours is Netflix?)

As for wanting to watch high def on my big screen TV, obviously that's the ideal, but I care first about the content rather than the video quality.

With cable, I cannot get much of the content I want, let alone when I want, period. So it doesn't matter how great the cable TV picture quality is.
I can't watch a football game, baseball game, bike race or golf tournament in SD, when I know its on HD.

I had always believed that as one gets older and their sight deteriorates, they wouldn't need HD, but how wrong I was! As your sight deteriorates, you need the best picture.

Streaming will not cut it for me.

I have two Comcast DVRs as a backup and I use them once, about, every two months. The DVRs are easy to use, but the BTV skip-ahead through commercials wins, hands down. This is not to mention the flexibility I have with the recordings.

I think Comcast's DVR selection which forces you to fast forward through commercials is designed so that the viewer, at least, sees the logos etc, of the sponsors. I can't stand this design.
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  #38  
Old 09-09-2011, 02:36 PM
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Re: Google buys SageTV

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Originally Posted by NickHark View Post
I can't watch a football game, baseball game, bike race or golf tournament in SD, when I know its on HD.

I had always believed that as one gets older and their sight deteriorates, they wouldn't need HD, but how wrong I was! As your sight deteriorates, you need the best picture.

Streaming will not cut it for me.
I know where you're coming from, but we're talking about Joe Consumer here - I do not believe the bulk of the populace is really that worried about picture quality as long as they have a moving picture on the screen. I know that only 1 in 5 people at my house care about the difference between HD and SD (can you guess which one?).

An often-heard conversation at our house:
Me: "Why are you watching the low-def version of this show? It on in HD!"
Wife/kids: "Who cares? Stop being an idiot."
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  #39  
Old 09-10-2011, 06:19 AM
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Re: Google buys SageTV

As more and more people get used to watching shows on their tiny phones, or even computer monitors (anything 24" or less let's say), quality will be less and less of a demand.

Last Black Friday I picked up a 32" tv as a basement monitor, I hunted around and found a 1080, made a big difference just over 720 let alone SD.

I also grabbed a Coby 9" tablet to play with, $130 for an android wifi only toy, plays xvids and divx's nicely, I use it for airplanes mostly.

My main tv's are still HD (37" and 46") and streaming does not cut it, in fact on some shows the showsqueeze even at the best settings is noticeable. High action and sports, best use of HD. Cartoons and talk shows, Sd is fine. In fact, since upgrading my Directv receiver to HD, even my s-video capture on my HVR1600 looks a hell of a lot better.

One negative I think most people don't realize but I sure as hell notice, frame rate on HD LCD's is still too slow, I can pick up the skips in high motion, regardless whether its OTA, Directv or a BTV recording. Maybe the new 360hz LED's will compensate, but my concern is that the source video gets compressed (cable definitely does, Directv not as much but some channels you can tell) that you lose that quality. At least sports they don't seem to do it as much, and I get as good a quality on my games recorded from OTA vs the HD PVR on Directv channels.
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  #40  
Old 09-11-2011, 01:53 PM
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Re: Google buys SageTV

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Originally Posted by optikhog View Post
An often-heard conversation at our house:
Me: "Why are you watching the low-def version of this show? It on in HD!"
Wife/kids: "Who cares? Stop being an idiot."
It's hard to stop when its so easy.
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  #41  
Old 09-11-2011, 08:39 PM
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Re: Google buys SageTV

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Originally Posted by NickHark View Post
It's hard to stop when its so easy.
Some people just can't seem to tell. I was at my sister-in-laws house one day and she was telling me about the new 40 something inch HDTV they put in their bedroom. I knew they had Dish Network and I said so you decided to pay for a another box. She said oh no one box can supply two TVs. I knew she had the same STB I have, and I said I know but the signal from the secondary tuner is only SD. She assured me it was HD, and I assured her it wasn't, but apparently they were happy with it.
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  #42  
Old 09-13-2011, 05:57 AM
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Re: Google buys SageTV

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Originally Posted by Terminal View Post
Some people just can't seem to tell. I was at my sister-in-laws house one day and she was telling me about the new 40 something inch HDTV they put in their bedroom. I knew they had Dish Network and I said so you decided to pay for a another box. She said oh no one box can supply two TVs. I knew she had the same STB I have, and I said I know but the signal from the secondary tuner is only SD. She assured me it was HD, and I assured her it wasn't, but apparently they were happy with it.
+1 to both posts above. I just don't think most people even care. SCREEN HAS PICTURE = HAPPY. heh

There are days when I am glad we do not get Food Network in HD, BTW. I'm carrying around enough weight as it is.
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  #43  
Old 12-06-2011, 01:33 PM
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Re: Google buys SageTV

I just thought I'd reignite this thread.

My story: BTV user for a while with the HDPVR, upgraded to the HD Colossus and had to switch to SageTV for support. Since then Sage was bought out and I've cancelled my directv service. So all I have now are my libraries (photos, music, and movies) and OTA tv.

Before Sage, I used several programs to manage these collections. BTV, Realplayer, PowerDVD, PhotoslideShow, etc.

With Sage, these all came together under one. Now, I'm just waiting for the EPG to run out. Guess I'll be back to BTV at that point and will need to reinstall it (thank goodness I've kept all the cd's, boxes, and cdkeys).

Unless of course Google (or something else) comes to the front. But it's the end of 2011 now and it seems google is just sitting on their hands.

Very depressing. I'd like something as easy as BTV, as All-in-One as Sage, and able to incorporate ANY video sites (HULU, Netflix, Youtube, ABC, NBC, FOX, etc.) that I wish to throw at it.
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Last edited by Lark; 12-06-2011 at 01:49 PM.
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  #44  
Old 12-19-2011, 02:26 PM
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Re: Google buys SageTV

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Originally Posted by Lark View Post
Now, I'm just waiting for the EPG to run out. Guess I'll be back to BTV at that point and will need to reinstall it (thank goodness I've kept all the cd's, boxes, and cdkeys).
As been mention on Sage forum, there is a program to get epg outside of sage to put into sage. So if you decide to return, that is your choice not because of epg as there is a viable solution already working.
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Originally Posted by Richard Kuo / Chief Technology Officer
Will SnapStream be integrating Beyond TV and Beyond Media?

The answer to this question is a definite yes!
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