XMLTV Importer for 3.5

[StephaneM]

Hello All,

This is a new release of the XMLTV Importer that works with 3.5 (and also with 3.4).

This is a beta release and I hope that you'll give me some feedback on it.

What's new from previous version 1.9 :

* of course 3.5 support with multiple lineup
* new channel editor, with lineup editor
* improved speed of import

To use it : clean your old "3rdPartyGuideData" folder.
Launch the importer
Edit channels and lineup
Import the data
In the Beyond TV web admin associate each video source with your lineup.

Note : the settings for channels file was removed, instead you can specify a settings directory. If you want to reuse your old channels file, just point the setting directory to the directory of your channel file.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[matt_nz]

Hi, I haven't used your XMLTV importer before. Previously I was using one that wrote to the database directly, but obviously that doesn't work in 3.5.

I have a program that airs the same time each day and the xml for it simply has the title and a generic description that is the same each day. Now when I set BTV to "record all episodes", it reports that the show is a repeat of the show from the start of the week and won't record it.

I have seen the function to "Identify unique show also with description", this has worked for some shows to stop them showing as repeats, but with this show that has the same title and description each day, it obviosly wouldn't work.

Is there any work-around for this (e.g. Disable the "repeat" detection completely)? Or will I have to generate unique episode numbers somehow when building the xmltv file?

[StephaneM]

Hello,

I have a program that airs the same time each day and the xml for it simply has the title and a generic description that is the same each day. Now when I set BTV to "record all episodes", it reports that the show is a repeat of the show from the start of the week and won't record it.
.../...
Is there any work-around for this (e.g. Disable the "repeat" detection completely)?

No, there is no work-around for this behavior. The importer must have a way to find out if a show is a repeat or not. The only information available for this is : the name, the episode title and the description of the program.

I can maybe treat "news" differently, as this kind of program is new every day or every week. But I would prefer not to alter the XMLTV data in the importer.

So, if you know that your program isn't a repeat, you could add for each program an episode title like this one "program of MM/DD/YY", this way the importer will work correctly.

If I do this in the importer, I will not know, for instance, if a program airing in the morning is not a repeat of the same program aired the day before in the evening. That's specific to each channel.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[matt_nz]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

No, there is no work-around for this behavior. The importer must have a way to find out if a show is a repeat or not. The only information available for this is : the name, the episode title and the description of the program.

I can maybe treat "news" differently, as this kind of program is new every day or every week. But I would prefer not to alter the XMLTV data in the importer.

Could it not look at the "previously-shown" attribute of the programme? As it is, it seems like the importer is trying to guess that it is a repeat when that information should be specified by the XMLTV data. I also tried inserting a "premiere" attribute into the programmes, hoping it would stop them being detected as a repeat, but that didn't seem to work.

So, if you know that your program isn't a repeat, you could add for each program an episode title like this one "program of MM/DD/YY", this way the importer will work correctly.

Yes, I think I will do this for shows with no episode title.

Anyway thanks for your help. Your programme is greatly appreciated

[StephaneM]

Could it not look at the "previously-shown" attribute of the programme? As it is, it seems like the importer is trying to guess that it is a repeat when that information should be specified by the XMLTV data. I also tried inserting a "premiere" attribute into the programmes, hoping it would stop them being detected as a repeat, but that didn't seem to work.

The importer doesn't try to guess is a show is a repeat or not, it just try to uniquely identify shows (the other importer treated all shows as unique, so that "Record All" was currently recording all program including repeats)

The "previously-shown" tag is not handled by the importer, because it is not useful for Beyond TV. The "premiere" tag is handled, but it just tell the importer that the show is a first run, and set for Beyond TV the original air date.

The "premiere" tag could be fine for uniquely identify all show marked as "premiere", but not helping the importer to find repeats of this show (unless searching the show pointed by the "previously-shown" tag, the caveat of this is that this search will take a long time to complete and may not find any results if the "previously-shown" program is not in the guide anymore).

The key thing to the import is to be able to compute (quickly) an ID for each show (respecting series), and the best way to accomplish this is to base this computation on the content of the show (the only information for sure that doesn't change based on the schedule of the show).

Regards,
Stéphane.

[srigby]

Matt_NZ,

Let me get this straight. You want to disable repeat detection?

I have a problem at the moment where repeat detection is not working (but I'm choosing to live with it rather than complain about it).

On Friday nights there is a show called Gardening Australia which is repeated on Sunday afternoons. The weird thing is that if I set it to record "all new episodes" it actually records the repeat and doesn't record the first-run show!?!?

This is no big deal, though. Stephane, if you want to look into this, I'll help you with it. Otherwise, I'm just happy to overlook it.

[StephaneM]

Hello Scott,

On Friday nights there is a show called Gardening Australia which is repeated on Sunday afternoons. The weird thing is that if I set it to record "all new episodes" it actually records the repeat and doesn't record the first-run show!?!?

If the show is exactly the same show, that is same title + episode title (and description optionally), then this is Beyond TV that selected the airing of Sunday to be recorded, maybe because you were recording another show on Friday.

Best way to achieve "repeat detection" is looking at the title and episode title of the show. If you have them for programs you want to record, there should be no problem.

For instance, if I want to record every evening news, with my current guide data : I could not as I have no episode title for these programs. The importer treats them as the same show repeated each day. So for recording all of them I must add "news of MM/DD/YY" as episode title, that does totaly make sense : this is the way you name that kind of program anyway.


Regards,
Stéphane

[srigby]

Hi again Stephane,

The repeat problem is not bothering me at the moment. I'm trying to get your Importer to support my second tuner (yes, I've just installed v3.5).

Maybe the problem is that I didn't delete the original channels.xml file (although I sware I deleted the contents of 3rd party guide data).

Anyway, I'll keep playing and once I've worked everything out, I might do a complete rebuild (with XP SP2 RC2 as well).

Appreciate your work...

[srigby]

Don't worry, Stephane. I worked out how the multi-tuner support works.

Although, take FTA channels for instance. These are commonly available over an Antenna source as well as a Cable/Sat source.

How can I get XMLTV Importer to recognise that some channels are available from both tuners rather than just one or the other?

[StephaneM]

Scott,

Are you saying that you have problems when usign the version of the importer released here for 3.5 and never have these problems with the importer for 3.4. (Or based on your last post, the problems was indeed a consequence of setting up Beyond TV 3.5)?

The reason I ask you this question is that the importer for 3.5 compute a hash for title + episode title (the previous version was instead searching in the program data, and that was long). But hashing is not as accurate as search, meaning that depending of the hash algorithm, two different strings can have the same hash. And for the importer that means that two different shows (with different title and episode title) can have the same hash and be treated as the same show.

I've released this version in a hurry, and I'm currently using it on 3.4.4 (can't use 3.5 as it doesn't work for me : wrong frequency for Antenna, no audio and video when applying change to video source, refuse to change channels when switching from one source to another), but only since Friday, so I can't guarantee that it is as reliable as the previous version.

How can I get XMLTV Importer to recognise that some channels are available from both tuners rather than just one or the other?

For now you can't. But I will introduce this possibility in a future version :

• Have a way to specify that channel X have the same program data as channel Y (for instance you have a channel that is airing in 4/3 and in 16/9 on two different channel numbers).
• Have a way to dispatch a channel to a different lineup (I'll have to check if it works right for Beyond TV, that is it will not make a duplicate entry in program guide, but I strongly believe that it will make another entry - based on how BTV identify uniquely channels - so it will make no sense).

Regards,
Stéphane.

[srigby]

I'll look into the "repeat episode" situation and report back to you. I think some of the problem may have been that I wasn't doing full 7 day XMLTV data downloads - but I'm doing that now.

It was a problem with 3.4.4 (and not because of any recording conflicts either).

Re: multi tuner support. OK, I'll wait patiently. The problem is that I have two tuners but only one lineup as generated by your XMLTV importer. It would probably work if I just chose the Tuner 1 lineup for Tuner 2 as they are both using the same source (Antenna).

3.5 is working pretty well for me - but omits what I've been waiting for. Eg: network client, streaming from my ATI card while recording from the PVR-350, etc.. But I'm sure that's not far away.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by srigby

The problem is that I have two tuners but only one lineup as generated by your XMLTV importer. It would probably work if I just chose the Tuner 1 lineup for Tuner 2 as they are both using the same source (Antenna).

This is what it is designed for, for instance :

I have one tuner with two sources : Antenna and Satellite. I have two channels on the Antenna that I don't have on the Satellite, so I make two lineups : one with to channels for Antenna ,and one with all other channels. But some channels are both on Antenna and Satellite : I don't even bother to add these channels for Antenna, as I can't record on both source at the same time.

If I could afford another tuner right now, I will make it match the previous one : two sources with the same lineups for each.

But I see your point, with the second tuner you only have one source the Antenna. As for me : I surely couldn't add a second satellite set top box. And you're probaly right : you'll have to compose your lineup to move the channels that are duplicate on Satellite and Antenna to the one used by the Antenna.

I'm sure otherwise you'll have duplicate channels in your program guide and it will be tricky to setup a recording.

[srigby]

OK, Stephane. Here's a juicy problem for you to get your teeth into!

Under 3.4.4, I used to record Cantonese News, Japanese News, Italian News, etc... in the morning here. I selected Record All Episodes and it worked fine. The name and description is always the same.

But under 3.5, it recorded today's lot of foreign news shows and all of tomorrow's shows are crossed out. I did the Programme Info import on Sunday and today (Monday) was the first day that those shows are aired. But there are no upcoming recordings for tomorrow.

This used to work under 3.4.4 but not under 3.5. I've got the "Identify..." box ticked, but I've always had it ticked and it used to work fine.

Really appreciate your work. SnapStream wouldn't be worth using without an XMLTV Importer.

EDIT: Maybe this relates to the Hash / Search approach you mentioned earlier.

[matt_nz]

Originally Posted by srigby

Under 3.4.4, I used to record Cantonese News, Japanese News, Italian News, etc... in the morning here. I selected Record All Episodes and it worked fine. The name and description is always the same.

But under 3.5, it recorded today's lot of foreign news shows and all of tomorrow's shows are crossed out. I did the Programme Info import on Sunday and today (Monday) was the first day that those shows are aired. But there are no upcoming recordings for tomorrow.

This is the same problem I was running into. The XMLTV importer decides it is the same show as it detects repeat episodes based on the title, episode and the description (if enabled).

I think the solution would be to alter your XMLTV data to make the show unique as Stephane suggested by adding an episode title containing the date of the show e.g. "Show of dd/mm/yyyy".

[astensgaard]

I just installed 3.5 and your new xml importer .. but I can't figure out how to tell beyondtv to use the 3thpartyguidedata ?

what am I missing here ?

when I go to my channel lineup I only see the channels I added when I ran the install wizard thing .. not the ones from the .xml file created by your importer ?

any suggestions are very welcome !