Ceton Multi-Channel Cable HDTV Card

[Noakes]

Has anyone seen this? Ceton Corp.
I sounds interesting to say the least. I wonder if this will be supported in Beyond TV and if the cable companies will embrace it. Any thoughts?

[captain_video]

Right now it appears that the card will only be supported in Win 7 Media Center. Hauppauge has alaos announced a CableCARD tuner that's scheduled for release by the end of this ear. The 4-tuner Ceton cards won't be available until 1st quarter of 2010 with the 2-tuner models shortly afterwards. The 6-tuner Ceton cards will only be made available to OEM manufacturers of media center PCs. There's a long discussion thread on the topic in the Home Theater PC section of the AVS Forums.

[Rich A]

Sounds exciting. I've been wondering how the cable card scenario would eventually pan out for us. Also wondered if one cable card could support multiple tuners. Evidently that is so which really makes things interesting.

In their FAQ they do mention several times that their device WILL be available directly to users as well as OEM builders.

Going way back to the fuzzy area in my memory I seem to remember that at that time the standard cable card (perhaps version 1?) would not support two way communications. So it wasn't able to provide all the features that a set-top cable company tuner could. Like interactive guides, Pay for View, On demand etc. Back then CableLabs was working on a version 2 cable card that would support all those things. I saw no mention of what type(s) cable cards this thing will support. But for me, a plain vanilla cable card just able to give me my extended basic digital lineup would be WONDERFUL !!

[captain_video]

A single M-card will support up to six tuners simultaneously. I'm currently paying for four S-cards with my two S3 Tivos, which is one reason I'm so excited about this product. I'll not only eliminate the monthly rental on three cableCARDs but I'll also eliminate the service fees for two Tivos. I figure I'll save between $30-35 per month on fees with the 4-tuner card.

[Octavean]

It is my understanding that a single CableCard will support a 2x, 4x and 6x CableCard tuner so the rental fee for the CableCard will presumably be the same in each configuration (~$1.99). The reason the 6x CableCard tuner configuration is OEM only is presumably due to a limitation specific to retail versions of the OS accessible to the masses. That limitation being 4 tuners of a kind.

This demonstrates the necessity for anyone wishing to use CableCard to use Microsoft Media Center via Windows 7. In other words, Beyond TV users and users of other HTPC software need not apply unless they are willing to abandon the software they are currently using.

I’ve had my feet in both worlds for a while so its not that hard for me to make a decision like this. I have two free Windows 7 licenses coming (one of which I already have possession of) and I have several other licenses I paid for on order. So I guess I have no trouble leaving BeyondTV. Personally I think I would rather leave BTV then see it defiled with the DRM that would be necessary for it to gain CableCard support.

It would be nice however if it were possible to use CableCard tuners (without the actual CableCard) as Clear QAM tuners in any software package that supports the functionality.

[kandlg]

Originally Posted by Octavean

Personally I think I would rather leave BTV then see it defiled with the DRM that would be necessary for it to gain CableCard support.

Agreed unless they could implement DRM only on CableCard tuners. Not sure if that is in "the spec" though.

[Octavean]

Originally Posted by kandlg

Agreed unless they could implement DRM only on CableCard tuners. Not sure if that is in "the spec" though.

Microsoft Media Center has had DRM restrictions deeply ingrained in it from its inception. This type of lock down has no doubt acted as a catalyst to make it the only PC software solution that supports CableCard (to date).

I don’t think Snapstream could easily, quickly or surgically implement this prerequisite. Even if Snapstream were so inclined Microsoft is literally years ahead in this dubious respect. However, once its in, its in like cancer that has mastatised. Don’t think that you’ll be able to dodge it or somehow be unaffected by it. Server client functionality will be seriously impeded by this possibly even with the newer less restrictive firmware.

Also note that if such restrictions are implemented that they could on occasion malfunction. In some cases even preventing users from watching live TV. I say this because bugs like this have cropped up from time to time in Media Center.

It’s a Faustian deal no matter how you look at it,…..


I know people are looking at CableCard with new eyes and thinking “wow I can now (or soon) buy a shiny new multi tuner CableCard” but there will be a lot of concessions (compromises) to be made in order to get in on this especially for those not already using Media Center.

Unfortunately, your first concession will be leaving BeyondTV at the wayside and accepting DRM into you lives.

“Abandon all hope ye who enter here”
　
　
　
　
　
　

[Jakesty]

Octavean I agree.
We need development, meaning Snapstream needs to push forward on some of this technology. There are so many different avenues, I'm sure the list could be huge. But within their scope there is still so much more than can be done. Sadly the competition is either doing it or moving with great vicissitude (+1 for the 50 cent word?). SageTV and some of the other free solutions continue to add to their environment. One big deal that every BTV user generally says is that they like the interface and that Sage and others are either not intuitive or cumbersome to use. When will someone just develop a template or face to overlay Sage so that it has the general look and feel of BTV. Sorry I digress...

Yeah, if we want our TV fix we'll eventually start drinking the DRM coolaid.

[Octavean]

Actually, I’ve been thinking,….

A 2x, 4x or even 6x CableCard tuner could theoretically be supplemented with a Hauppauge HD PVR (with a cable box) and DVBLink for Media Center functionality. The limit of Digital tuners wouldn’t be effected by the Hauppauge HD PVR which would be seen as an analog solution. Therefore, any archive worthy recordings can be recorded with the Hauppauge HD PVR and remain DRM free even in Media Center.

Restricted recordings could be liberated, in theory, using a Media Center Extender with Component output and a Hauppauge HD PVR.

[Noakes]

Originally Posted by Octavean

It is my understanding that a single CableCard will support a 2x, 4x and 6x CableCard tuner so the rental fee for the CableCard will presumably be the same in each configuration (~$1.99). The reason the 6x CableCard tuner configuration is OEM only is presumably due to a limitation specific to retail versions of the OS accessible to the masses. That limitation being 4 tuners of a kind.

This demonstrates the necessity for anyone wishing to use CableCard to use Microsoft Media Center via Windows 7. In other words, Beyond TV users and users of other HTPC software need not apply unless they are willing to abandon the software they are currently using.

I’ve had my feet in both worlds for a while so its not that hard for me to make a decision like this. I have two free Windows 7 licenses coming (one of which I already have possession of) and I have several other licenses I paid for on order. So I guess I have no trouble leaving BeyondTV. Personally I think I would rather leave BTV then see it defiled with the DRM that would be necessary for it to gain CableCard support.

It would be nice however if it were possible to use CableCard tuners (without the actual CableCard) as Clear QAM tuners in any software package that supports the functionality.

Thanks for answering my question as to the compatability between the card and BTV.

[Noakes]

So we could only use Win 7 media server with the cable cards huh? What about Windows Home Server? Would it work with BTV and 4 Hauppauge PVR250's?

[sjr]

I am personally very much looking forward to this cable card tuner card. I have seen the price Ceton is going to price them for (in a engadgetHD story/interview) between $300-$600 for the 4 stream card. I will say if the cards were out today I would pay $500 right now no problem.

Also I don't think there is anything stopping one from running the Ceton card in Windows 7 Media Center and then running BeyondTV with the other tuners and such you already have. I would prefer to run everything under one program but since you can do it now I would think you could still do it in 7 (provided BeyondTV works with 7 which I would think it would).

[Octavean]

Could be good news for those wanting to use CableCard on non-Microsoft PVR applications:

SageMCTuner turns Windows MediaCenter tuners into just another tuner for SageTV so that SageTV can access those CableCard tuners to record content and watch LiveTV.

http://www.geektonic.com/2009/10/cablecard-and-sagetv-sittin-in-tree.html
http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/10/20/cablecard-tuners-come-to-sagetv-via-sagemctuner/

Apparently they are looking for testers.

[captain_video]

I'm currently running BeyondTV with six ATSC tuners and two standalone Series 3 Tivos for my FIOS channels. I've got copies of Win 7 ready to install and I'm just waiting to find the time to do it. I intend to keep using BTV with Win 7 for my OTA channels and get a quad-tuner CableCARD tuner when they come out in the 1st quarter of 2010. I will set up the CableCARD tuners to work in Media Center and let BTV run in the background. I see no reason why the two setups can't work in harmony. Since I'd only be assigning four tuners to Media Center then I'm staying within the program limitations.

I'd be curious to know if the recordings made in Media Center would work with BeyondTV (I know nothing about which format that Media Center records in, although I'm sure a quick google search on the net or a visit to the Green Button forums would give me the answer). If they did then I could use a common directory to store all of my recordings and just use BTV for playback. Otherwise, I'll just use the specific codecs for playback and keep the recordings separate.

[lsilvest]

The WMC .wtv format works in virtually nothing as far as I know due to Microsoft's DRM garage. I understand there are a couple of programs that can convert them - none free. Maybe once Win7 becomes more widely used there will be more converters available and some programs will run them. All BeyondTV recognizes them as is WTF?