Why no Mpeg2 in ShowSqueeze?

[scooterspal]

Anyone care to comment as to why they think there is no Mpeg2 offered in ShowSqueeze?

Can a lower data rate in Mpeg2 be duplicated (or bettered) with the same data rate in Divx, I wonder. I've never used Divx so I'm not familiar with how well it may compress.

[mayhem70]

This article is a good breakdown of how Divx compares to MPEG2. I go from 3 gb MPEG2 files to 600 meg Divx files with no perceptible difference in playback.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/divx-6,1060.html

[Bigbird999]

You don't need to showsqueeze to get lower bitrate mpeg2 recordings. Go to web admin and select a different, or make a custom, recording profile and your BTV recordings will be smaller (ie lower quality) most use a DVD ready profile that is about 2 GB/ hr. Try different settings and pick the one that is OK for you and your particular set up.

Divx is a better codec (h264 even better) so you can take a high quality mpeg recording and compress it down to a much smaller size with little perceptible loss in quality. People showsqueeze to save disk space but with today's prices for HDDs many would argue that it is not worth the time and effort.

BB

BB

[TomXP411]

I'm not 100% sure, but I'm gueesing that the answer is very simple: licensing. the MPEG2 codec requires a license for each kind of use, transcoding, DVD burning, and broadcast use. By buying the codec they're using for the DVD plugin, Snapstream is paying for the DVD burning license, but they would need to pay extra money for a license to encode video to store on the computer.

[enigma9o7]

I'm guessing the answer is - why would you want to? Whole point of showsqueeze is to make the file smaller, so you want something with good compression. To get the same quality mpeg2 as divx, filesize of mpeg2 much bigger. H.264 even smaller than divx, particularly noticeable at high resolution.

[scooterspal]

Thanks for the detailed replies. Again, not having ever used Divx I was at a loss as to how well it may work.

My reason for wanting to stay in Mpeg2 was my need to be able to make DVD's from the compressed archived version later on. I will need to see if Ulead will accept Dvix or h264 as a viable input file for encoding.

Has anyone had the same needs?

[TomXP411]

Hopefully, SS will get a new version of the the DVD burning codec one of these days, one that can handle TP's.

In the meantime, check out lifehacker.com. They're frequently running roundups of various software tools; I saw a DVD burning roundup a while back. (Just search for DVD Burning.)

Personally, I don't bother burning DVD's any more. I make data discs with h.264 files. Some DVD players can also play DiVx. See if yours can do that, and consider burning to DiVx.

[Bigbird999]

Unless I am not reading correctly, OP is running Hauppauge 500 tuners so he is talking about analog recordings not HD. So he should be able to set any DVD compliant mpeg profile as his recording default and then produce a video DVD from the recording.

scooter, you are able to record a show (your 550 tuner encodes it to mpeg and writes it on your HDD) and then you can burn it to DVD using the DVD plugin. That is how the software is designed. Showsqueezing is only for saving space. Am I understanding what you want to do correctly?

BB

[scooterspal]

Originally Posted by Bigbird999

scooter, you are able to record a show and then you can burn it to DVD using the DVD plugin. BB

Up until now I have used Ulead's DVD authoring program to edit and burn Mpeg2 files to DVD. I'd prefer to continue working this way. It's a great program and perfect for me needs.

I just need to find out if it will accept Divx as the original video source. It just may... it takes in most anything else. Then I'm good to go and will use Divx as my "archiving" codec if it turns out to be as good as everyone claims it is. In the end, though, I will need to convert it back to Mpeg2 for DVD authoring. Ulead does this as a matter of course all in one pass.

[Rich A]

I used to be very involved with authoring my own DVDs. For a while (to allow me to fit a full TV (1 1/2 hour) movie onto a DVD-5 disc, I used a custom profile which is a dvd-compliant one. It is called 1/2 D1 and the video is 352x480. IF the source is excellent the results can be pretty good. I still have that profile on my HTPC although I don't bother archiving shows any more. (I just watch and delete them)

1/2 D1 IS a DVD-proper profile and should be acceptable by any DVD authoring software. As long as you don't exceed the normal DVD parameters (frame size, bit rate etc)

I've also found another (non-compliant) video to actually look better than 1/2 D1 while being the same or lower file size. That is SVCD which is a 480 x 480 screen size. Most DVD authoring software won't accept that as a source for DVD creation. But most DVD players will properly play them back. (if you can get an authoring software package to do the compilation)

Many years ago, I used to take a custom SVCD profile (that was darn near DVD quality when viewed) and by doing a little manipulation was able to burn a proper playing DVD (using the 480 x 480 frame) It involved taking the source video and modifying the header information to say the video was 352 x 480. And the authoring software would then accept it. Once accepted the output of the compiled DVD being written had the header returned to it's normal and actual state.

This enabled me to use the advanced menu creation and such of the typical DVD authoring software to create my own DVD that was playable on normal DVD stand alone players, and yet be very small in file size. This allowed me to get at least an hour and a half or more video onto a 4.8 GB standard DVD. And the result was almost indistinguishable from a standard DVD.

This was a long time ago .. home made DVD authoring was new and expensive.

Point of all this is that there may be another way to get what you want. Which I think, is the largest amount of video with the best possible quality at the lowest file size. And all that being able to use the BTV DVD burning option. I'm pretty sure the BTV burning application should be able to use a standard 1/2 D1 video for it's source. This would be easy as you would just have to use that profile for your recording. When I get home later today I'll check my system and see if I can find out what my own profile is that I use for such a purpose. The advantage? Being able to put more episodes of a show onto one DVD-5 or fitting a longer movie onto one DVD-5. My HTPC DVD burner is a DVD-9 capable one. Dual layer thingy.

So I find the BTV DVD burner generally can fit an hour and a half movie onto it okay. Hope this gives you some other areas to investigate or try.

[scooterspal]

Originally Posted by Rich A

Point of all this is that there may be another way to... (put) the largest amount of video with the best possible quality at the lowest file size.

Well, that's kind of correct. I do use the 8 gig DVD+R Double Layers, though, since they can now be had for around $1.50 or so. I know this is way more than two regular DVD's but it's also half the space on the shelf.

But whatever archive format I use must meet two criteria:

1) Has to be compatible with Ulead for DVD authoring and burning.

2) Has to have decent quality. I capture around 6Mbs going in... what they term DVD quality at the 2 hour rate... so if I can get something close to this with Dvix and save on space, that's my goal.

[Bigbird999]

scooter, you need to do a bit of research on DVD compliant files, DVD authoring and video compression. You seem to be mixed up about what you want/need and the difference between a video DVD and data DVD.

In summary:

Video DVD authoring software takes a file in mpeg2 format (the same as what BTV records) and writes a bunch of files in a very specific format that tells your DVD player how to display the video. The base file must be DVD compliant (ie mpeg2 , maximum bitrate of 9800 including audio, and a maximum resolution of 720x480). If the file is not DVD compliant it cannot be used to author a video DVD. A Divx file cannot be used to author a video DVD. Ulead and other software take divx files and reencodes them to a DVD compliant mpeg file. So when you take a high quality mpeg recording made by BTV and showsqueeze it to divx you end up with a smaller file of lower quality (maybe not very perceptibly lower but lower). Now if you want to use the Divx file to create a video DVD, your Ulead software takes that file and reencodes (takes a long time) it back to a DVD compliant mpeg file (with another loss in quality) and uses that file to author the DVD. If you just use the BTV recording Ulead or BTV can author a DVD and burn it in about 20 min. If you go to web admin you can select or create a custom mpeg2 profile that is DVD compliant. The standard one is about 2 GB/hr so a 2 hr movie will fit easily on a 4.7 GB DVD.

What others have suggested is that you showsqueeze your files to Divx and to get a file size of 500 - 600 MB/hr then burn a DATA DVD. Many DVD players (not all) can play the files on a data DVD. These players are referred to as divx capable or "universal" DVD players. So, if you archive divx recordings you can get about 8 -9 hours of video on a single DVD, but you must play them back on a PC or a "universal" DVD player.

Hope this helps you

BB

[scooterspal]

I'm not confused but maybe the way I expressed myself was confusing.

The end product, the DVD, must be playable by others other than myself. Therefore, Video DVD is the only acceptable format.

I agree that the archive format can possibly be Divx if it looks good at lower data rates and yes I would record those particular files as Data DVD's.

I think you and I are on the same wavelength on this. I will try and test a Divx file in Ulead (my BTV trial for some reason has now gone away after just 4 days) and let you know how well the final reencoded DVD looks on TV.

[Rich A]

Originally Posted by scooterspal

I'm not confused but maybe the way I expressed myself was confusing.

The end product, the DVD, must be playable by others other than myself. Therefore, Video DVD is the only acceptable format.

I agree that the archive format can possibly be Divx if it looks good at lower data rates and yes I would record those particular files as Data DVD's.

I think you and I are on the same wavelength on this. I will try and test a Divx file in Ulead (my BTV trial for some reason has now gone away after just 4 days) and let you know how well the final reencoded DVD looks on TV.

Well like I said, 1/2 D1 (352x480) IS a fully compliant DVD profile. You can fool around with bit rates and such to the point of getting a pretty decent looking video that can be used with your Ulead authoring software to compile a DVD that is playable in any standard DVD player. Don't let the smaller size of the screen concern you until you try it. IF the original recording source is very good then 1/2 D1 will be surprisingly good when played back on a stand alone commercial DVD. If your original source is not that good (some noise, or other problems) then using a 1/2 D1 profile will amplify those problems. Whereas using a full D1 frame will not be so bad. I've attached a couple screens showing what I have. The first is all my various video qualities (notice the 1/2 D1 and SVCD profiles). The second one is what I use for 1/2 D1. Use "varible bit rate encoding" and set the high bit rate a little higher than normal and the lower about normal. This will allow the encoder to swing very high during busy motion scenes keeping the video nice and clear. Yet during low motion scenes it will drop very low and thus save you a lot of file space.

Also make sure you set the stream to "DVD Stream" and not "Program Stream" By doing so, you force the encoder to apply many of the non-user intrisinc mpeg settings that will make it DVD proper for authoring.

Try experimenting with the 1/2 D1 profile and you "might" end up with an Mpeg-2 video that you can plug directly into your authoring software and still be a lot smaller than a normal D1 DVD. I agree with BB ... you really don't need to record in Mpeg, then compress to Divx, then use divx (or some other compression scheme) with your Ulead application which is only going to re-encode it back to Mpeg-2. You "might" find just staying with a different and customized Mpeg-2 profile will save you a lot of time.

Opps .. I forgot. My 1/2 D1 you see there was not optimized for best quality. I use it when quality isn't important and I want to save space. To make your own version, use the preset "Good DVD Ready" profile. Edit it as I suggested (or experiment) and then save that as a new profile. Only the "Good" and "Best" mpeg preset profiles are DVD compliant.

[scooterspal]

Rich:

You were very kind to provide such detailed information including some sample specs for the capture/compression rates you use... and for me to try.

I wanted to do some testing with your specs but, as I posted here last week, I lost my 21 day trial after just 4 days (really just 3) and tech support has been less than speedy in getting it back for me. So here I sit with no BTV to play with.

I did do some testing with the Divx codec using Super Encoder, a freeware GUI that allows you to access several command line encoders like FFmpeg, and MEncoder. The Divx codec is part of the package as is Xvid, a competing codec to Dvix.

What I found was that Xvid did a much better job, picture quality wise, than Dvix for the same data rate but it took about twice as long to encode the same test file. Speed may be a factor for me if I have a lot to convert so this was a bit disheartening.

I also had good luck using Mpeg4. Very fast using the FFmpeg encoder. In fact, they all encoded much faster with FFmpeg over using MEencoder. About 300% or more faster! The only catch was the audio was way low. On every test with every codec, the audio was clean but low in level. Not sure why this is and I can find nothing on the net about it.

I'd really like to do similar testing with BTV if I can get them to help me get the trial back.

Does anyone know what encoder BTV uses??