HDMI Video Capture & BeyondTV

[samjemb]

This may be a ridiculous idea, but I want to put it out there to see if it has any merit.

As a background to this:

I use BeyondTV on a decent PC with two ATSC tuner cards for OTA recording and display the recorded video in my Home theatre. I also use BeyondTV Link to display the recordings on my family room 61" DLP. I find that BeyondTV works better than any other DVR I've used (and I'm a seasoned TiVo user with multiple units.)

I now have Verizon fios TV service for all the TV channels that are not available OTA. Unfortunately, the Verizon furnished DVR (Motorola QIP6416-2) has a rather small hard drive (by today's standards) and can only store about 20 hours of HD material. To get around this limitation, I was wondering if the following is possible:

Setup a PC with an HDMI video capture card (they're out there) and tie it to the HDMI output of my Verion HD STB. Using BeyondTV (suitably modified or upgraded) would it be possible to record HD programming directly from the STB? Obviously, this would require BeyondTV to recognize the HDMI capture card and use it in place of the ATSC tuner card (as necessary). It would also require that BeyondTV select the channel on the STB via a serial or USB IR emitter, but that seems to me to be fairly simple task to accomplish.

Video content protection might be an issue here, but other than that, is the idea feasible? Equally important, does it make sense, or is there an easier way to do this?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
David

[tscales]

No one has done this successfully yet. Not to say it isn't possible, but if I recall, it is something like 80gb per hour and disk subsystems that could keep up are very expensive.

[samjemb]

Originally Posted by tscales

. . . if I recall, it is something like 80gb per hour and disk subsystems that could keep up are very expensive.

Wow . . 80gb per hour? When I record OTA HD using BeyondTV the storage requirements run only about 8gb per hour. I assume this is because mpeg compression is being applied at the time of recording. Couldn't a similar compression scheme be applied in this case as well?

My ultimate goal here is to have a large (and easily expandable) storage capacity for recording channels that are only available through fios, similar to what I now have for OTA recording.

The DVR that fios supplies is a Motorola QIP 641602 and has only a 160GBYte hard drive. If there were some way to either install a larger drive or to add an external drive, that would accomplish my goal just fine. But so far I have not found any way to do either of these. I suppose I could also just rent a second DVR from Verizon, but I am already spending too much every month for TV, and I hate being held hostage by my provider.

I very much appreciate your reply, and I welcome any ideas and comments about this.

David

[Fonceur]

Originally Posted by samjemb

Wow . . 80gb per hour? When I record OTA HD using BeyondTV the storage requirements run only about 8gb per hour.

Actually it's 300 gb per hour, which might take half a day or more to compress into something more reasonable... There's at least 10 thread about it, for example take a look at:

high definition cable box

[samjemb]

Thank you very much, Fonceur, for that explanation and for the links!

Now I have a much better understanding of what's involved in what I was hoping (alas, in vain) to accomplish.

I do, however, have one last question for you. If the signal coming out of the HDMI port on the STB is coming out at the rate of about 300 GBytes per hour (for display on the TV), is the STB decoding in real time the previously compressed signal that is coming into the box (via cable or fios or whatever)?

It seems that there really is no solution to my desire to increase my HD storage capacity short of renting a second DVR or waiting for Motorola and Verizon to offer a DVD with more storage capacity. Too bad.

Again, thanks!
David

[Fonceur]

Originally Posted by samjemb

If the signal coming out of the HDMI port on the STB is coming out at the rate of about 300 GBytes per hour (for display on the TV), is the STB decoding in real time the previously compressed signal that is coming into the box (via cable or fios or whatever)?

Yes, which is also what your CPU + video card are doing when you watch though BTV (or any other video player). It is much faster to decompress than to compress...

[jhanan]

So what is the deal here? I want to recored HD output - yes the output - from my Time Warner Cable HD set top box which outputs both 1080i in component (using this now as input to the TV) as well as HDMI. So, is there a card out there that will accept the 1080i input signal via component video - compress it - and have BTV throw it down onto the HD???

[tscales]

No offense, but did you read the thread before you posted? It's not practical.

[mcbeenb]

No offense, but did you read the question?

It's perfectly valid. Are you going to sit there and claim that all of the marketing behing HD on BTV is bogus? Are you going to claim that all of those OTA HD capture cards are vapor ware... ok some are... but that's not the point.

The answer is unfortunately no. The reasons boggle my mind. The simplest way in the world for us to get our HD content from ANY device would be simple component/dvi/hdmi input, and use an IR-blaster to change channels. But for some reason this device doesn't exist. We are close over at black magic, but alas they don't have onboard compression. It's not what the product is designed for.


I would say it's out of fear of piracy... but there are plenty of products out there that are perfectly valuable for stealing. Besides... a Video card vendor could care less if you used it illegally.

For now I'm stuck with two entertainment systems... one SD, one HD... patiently waiting for the day I can use just one for both.

[tscales]

Well, as Fonceur said, it is a 300GB per hour data stream. So, if I recorded 8 shows tonight (not out of the realm of possibility), then I'd need 2.4TB.

Every day.

I don't have the money for that, do you?

It is not practical.

There are other solutions, such as CableCard, that are better, although not with BTV.

[Voxelflinger]

FYI: If you have a Mac there is an HDMI capture card called Intensity Pro for $349.

It captures from any HDMI output. The downside is you would have to change the channel yourself and own the software.

You can check the card out at www.blackmagic-design.com

www.aja.com also has a Mac HDMI capture device. Their Windows device/card is not HDMI input.

Keep in mind that the Intensity Pro is for video editing and not for time shifting television shows. They do however mention in their data that connecting and capturing from a set top box is one of the devices functions.

When I find a windows version of an HDMI capture card I will post it.

[Bloggator]

Some other interesting thing about the Blackmagic Intensity Pro:

1. It works with a PC as well as a Mac.

2. It has a real-time "Online JPEG" format that creates an AVI file that has a transfer rate of around 12MB per second for full resolution 1080i. http://www.blackmagic-design.com/pro...sity/software/

3. It has HDCP built into its two HDMI ports.

There's no tuner, but if you plugged a cable or satellite box into it and used a serial tuner to change channels, maybe there's a way to work that.

Jeff

[grandpaken]

Originally Posted by Voxelflinger

FYI: If you have a Mac there is an HDMI capture card called Intensity Pro for $349.

So to create a PVR capable of recording 2 HD channels at the same time you would need 2 cards plus 2 HD receivers and purchase IR hardware to change channels and the software like BeyondTV. That's over $1000 when you can get a Directv HR20 for $299 and assumes you already have a PC to put the hardware in.