Are the Time Warner police gonna be knocking at my door?

[guitrldy]

I just had an interesting service call from my Time Warner cable guy that I wanted to post here.

I was having probs with my Time Warner DVR. (I have a DVR from them, and my homebuilt system with two tuners. The DVR is not hooked into my system.) The probs turned out to be a bad harddrive in the DVR unit, but in the course of the service call, here's what transpired.

As soon as the cable guy saw my computer next to the TV, he said that it was
"illegal" to record from cable onto a computer for two reasons.

1. First, TW doesn't allow it because of RIAA copyright laws.

1. Second, computers hooked into cable (TV) introduce voltage back into the cable line, causing problems with everyone else hooked into that node.

Supposedly these are in the Timewarner contract.

He then stated that he was going to have to make a note with the paperwork that we have a computer hooked to cable TV and that from now on if we have a problem, they would charge us a $75 fee just to come out to our house.

Also, if too many people in our neighborhood complained of problems (specifically pixelation probs), that they might drop our contract.

Also, some people have had their computers seized for the content recorded on them.


Now, remember, this is what HE said. He wasn't very specific on how much voltage was introduced (or even why a computer power supply would do this but not a TV power supply).

Anyone else ever hear of any of this?
I haven't read my TW contract, so I'm not sure of the wording that would cover this.

Lisa

[Mistergq]

Never heard of this. I had a comcast guy in my house because I was having cable modem problems. Now mind you, I have a router with four points, a hub with 4 ports, a wireless access point. I also have a XBox hooked into that setup, PS2, and most importantly, my link box. The cable guy only mentioned that I could not have the my cable modem plugged into a signal booster, but made no comment about my computer. Trust me, he saw the computer.

I think the TW guy was b.s.ing you.

I'll tell you what, I know a comcast guy, I will PM him on another board and ask him this question.

[MrWolfinWV]

I don't think a computer can introduce voltage back onto the line any more than a cable modem, STB, or a TV -- it would have to be a bad unit to do that because it's an input device. If you're not doing anything illegal with the recordings, they can't do squat. Otherwise, it would be illegal for you to be able to pull recorded shows off of more widely used boxes like Tivo and ReplayTV. I'd like to see them try to keep people from being able to use their Media Center PCs.

Forgive my vent, the cable companies are a joke. I'd like to see someone try to tell me that. He'd leave my house with a PVR-500 up is arse (the one with the bad tuners).

[Mistergq]

i will add that TW has bigger problems than you having a PVR. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...home-headlines

[Voxelflinger]

A tv tuner in a pc or in a tv cannot send voltage back thru the cable. In the old days (1950-1965) a number of tv sets could bring a signal down because of the number of baluns (the 300 ohm splitters) attached hence the need for an amp.

With the newer digital cable th ecable company needs a voltage feedback. You cannot use regular cable amps if you have digital cable, phone or internet. If you ONLY have standard cable and no converter box can you use a Wal-Mart amp. The package even says not for digital cable use.

Radio Shack and a few other places sell digital cable amps but they are expensive.

If you have a bad signal then you may have too many splits on your line. I have never in 25 years met a smart cable tech nor one who knows what he is doing.

The chances are greater that you have DC riding on your cable and that causes hum in audio amps, not the PC. And since when does the PCI or AGP bus system send a voltage out thru a tv connection. Isn't a TV connection an INPUT?

[cfaslave]

Originally Posted by guitrldy

Anyone else ever hear of any of this?
I haven't read my TW contract, so I'm not sure of the wording that would cover this.

Lisa

Lisa,
Your Time Warner guy is full of **it! The voltage comment is a dead giveaway that he had no idea of what he is talking about. The rest of the stuff he is telling you is garbage. They won't charge you more for a service call just because you have a PC connected to your cable either. Matter of fact, you could add a tivo or whatever to your house with no penalty. I'll chalk this up to another reason I dislike Time Warner!

[ZetaVu]

Personally, I would cancel my TW cable immediately and switch to satellite. When dumping them, I would mention the moron by name and describe how he threatened you with baseless claims and lies, and specifically state for the record that they now have no permission to ever contact you again, regardless of your prior business arrangement (and if they do you can report them to the government if your number is in the donotcall registry, $11,000 fine). Also tell them that you are recording this conversation for legal purposes, and end with "Have a nice day"

Now just for the record, no service provider has any authority to call any system which utilizes "fair use" under copyright law illegal. It is entirely inappropriate to accuse anyone of illegal activity unless you have legal backing (like a police or lawyer) to do so.

RIAA has no copyright laws, RIAA abuses copyright laws. RIAA has absolutely nothing to do with tv or cable, that is the MPAA. Anyone who doesn't know the difference is an idiot.

A computer tuner acts exactly like a cablebox or tv. The tuner in your computer cannot send signals back into the line, it is a one way connection. Connect a voltmeter if you don't believe me.

If he claims anything is in the time warner contract, you should demand him to produce the contract, if he cannot, call his supervisor immediately.

TW is required to service your cableline, dvr, everything from your line into the house to your tv. Anything past that is your responsibility. If they claim something on your end caused the problem, they have to demonstrate it, otherwise they are in breach of contract, not you.

Your computer cannot be seized for content recorded off of cable or tv, there is a legal precedent explicitly allowing personal recording of shows (the betamax decision of 1984) which does not exclude computers.

If they tried to drop you form your contract they would have to demonstrate that your line was the cause of the problem.

Mind you, these are my opinions and IANAL, but this guy is a dipshit of the first class and I guarantee he would no longer have a job in my neighborhood. I wouldn't allow this level of idiocy in the local Tasteefreeze for fear they would poison the whole community.

Darwin has a special award awaiting this guy.

[hoglander]

Email a link to this thread to them and ask them to respond in the thread. I'm not a customer but many that see this thread may be. I'm very upset and I'm not even a customer of their service. I think it begs and demands an official response from them.

[merrypig]

Go on then, connect your voltmeter Zetavu. I'd love to see you fail to substantiate your claim.

The cable guy does have points. I am sceptical whether they are actual tangible problems for the cable company as good design would dictate resiliance to single failures like a voltage on the customer equipment, but he is actually closer to reality than the attempts above to discredit him.

For a start for the poster who talked about AGP/PCI buses... the original poster never even mentioned that. Oddly enough the fiction you created wasn't true. fancy that.

And TW is actually not required to service anything in your house except equipment that is provided by them, or certified as compliant to cable standards which the tv should be. Computer tuner cards are not. They do not get tested and there a hundreds of very poor designs out there that are improperly grounded or do not have isolating supplies.

The guy is quite correct to charge for a problem if it is caused by or to a computer and you called them out to fix it. Just simply disconnect your PC, plug in a tv, verify the problem and call them out.

And as far as demonstrating the problem, it's a small nuance, but actually they only have to prove that _their_ equipment did _NOT_ cause the problem. They do not have to prove that your equipment did. It might amount to the same thing, but they cannot be accountable for anything that they do not have full control off. As much as you might want it as a user, it's just not remotely viable and no company would sign up for that if they had any sense at all.



Now, I do think the guy was a bit of a nutjob if that's the story he told you. Not quite sure what his motivation was, maybe just a bad day or got out of bed on the wrong side. I personally wouldn't sweat it. The cable company is very unlikely to bother with such a small case to even contemplate any action. Most likely they're trying to protect revenue due to people using multiple tv's/receivers off a single cable feed. You might want to check the small print about how many devices you can hook up to one subscription.

Perhaps more likely is that he was trying to get out of debugging a problem that could be hard to find and once he started making the noise he felt like he had to come up with some plausible sounding stuff to justify it. May well just have regurgitated stories he's heard from others without understanding them.. who knows.

Just read your T&W contract, which is actually the only thing that matters regardless of any opinions posted here since it's what you agreed to to obtain service. The rest is moot.

but for the other posters.. ... "dipshit of the first class?", "I guarantee he would no longer have a job"; cancel your subscription immediately? My gosh. How do you live in the world if the first little ripple of something you don't like makes you react so extreme and violently. It's no small wonder the world's in such a mess when the next generation gets so wound up.

[Mistergq]

here is the response I got from the Comcast guy I know:

no it's not. Once you pay for the service into the house it's yours to use as you want for personal use. as long as you're only getting the channels you pay for. It wouldn't send voltage back on the line either. What I have seen sometimes is if the tuner card on the computer is not great or if the connector is not screwed on tight, then it can back feed noise and cause trouble with your internet or digital cable, but it's not normal for it to back feed. there's nothing remotely illegal about it.

So yes, he is full of **it

[tscales]

"And as far as demonstrating the problem, it's a small nuance, but actually they only have to prove that _their_ equipment did _NOT_ cause the problem."

Wow, you really don't know anything about these things, do you. Magnuson Moss would actually kick in here. They would have to PROVE that YOUR equipment was causing a problem. They cannot require you to use their equipment. That is completely illegal. Fair use let's my record anything I want for my own use.

Personally, I'd ignore it.

[bnflaherty]

As far as interference is concerned -- I had a visit a while back -- several times -- from the good ole cable guy -- but I wasn't around for either visit. First appearance was due to one of the lines having static for no apparent reason. So he checked the signal on the outside to see the issue -- ended up disabling one of the lines. Left a message to call them back -- as there was some type of issue in the lines. They came back -- and the issue ended up being One of the TV's -- which I've used for years -- was sending some bad feedback in the system -- enough that they could detect it from the office. Suffice to say they put a filter on that one line and all was well.

This was after they saw the Mess that is my Splitters -- several for the PC's and others for lines going to and from the other floors...

No comments were made as far as the Spaghetti...

*I* thought he was going to start disconnecting all my stuff -- that can be slightly irritating when one is not able to either talk to the tech nor Be there at the time... "Don't touch my stuff..!!"

But all ended up fine.

Most if not all the tech's I've dealt with actually Do have a clue -- and several are computer guys anyway -- so luckily in my area they hire people who actually know something.

[merrypig]

Originally Posted by tscales

"And as far as demonstrating the problem, it's a small nuance, but actually they only have to prove that _their_ equipment did _NOT_ cause the problem."

Wow, you really don't know anything about these things, do you. Magnuson Moss would actually kick in here. They would have to PROVE that YOUR equipment was causing a problem. They cannot require you to use their equipment. That is completely illegal. Fair use let's my record anything I want for my own use.

Personally, I'd ignore it.

Go read the magnusson moss terms again. It doesn't apply to services, nor does TW warranty anything beyond provision of their signal at the house boundary. I stand by my opinion. Feel free to disagree, but you won't convince me otherwise. Have a nice day.

[rxnelson]

Not going to get into the legal battle but I did have a visit from the cable guy as well. He said there was "noise" coming back from my line. They put some filters up in the attic where the splitters were and said it was now at an acceptable level and that was it. Funny though as I have had BTV for some time without any other visits about noise?

[tscales]

I'm not saying anything about TW being responsible for anything in the house. Just that they can't stop you from having it.

I don't think we're really disagreeing, just seeing two different parts of it.

The guy was on drugs anyway