Recording HDTV in Canada

[jdawson]

We have three choices in Canada (that I am aware of) for HDTV.

1. Bell Express View
2. Star Choice
3. Rogers Cable

All of them have some sort of PVR, but I world really like to continue to use my Beyond TV.

The problem I see is that I don't see any TV tuner cards that I could place in my PC that could record from any of my choices. I don't want to have to change the channel manually to send the output to the PC to then record. It has to be fully automated. I know Beyond TV at one time would send signals out the serial port to change the channels on some devices.

Is their anyway in Canada to have a fully automated HDTV recording system withy Beyond TV. (I am willing to purchase another HDTV converter just for Beyond TV if it will do the job.)

All the best,

Joe

[Fonceur]

The short answer is: NO.

The only HDTV signal you can record is OTA (Over The Air) with an antenna, which basically means being close enough to a US city to catch their signal. With VISTA, there will be possibilities for American cable or DirectTV, but don't expect anything on our side of the border... If you had Cogeco which uses Motorola STB, you might be able to record from the FireWire port (should it ever become an option in BTV like in its competitors), but that's about it for HDTV in Canada...

[tenax]

ps-there's also shaw cable that has HD in western canada..and i only think you can record HD quality by buying one of their HD set top boxes. i highly doubt any cable company for awhile is going to give us the option to record HD through our cable unless it runs through their boxes, until a point when the HD add on card is so generally available, they are fighting a losing battle. meanwhile, they have the chance to make a bunch of money selling us a set top box with pvr recording for $500 to $700! i would think that weren't the case that they were money grubbing if they were willing to rent at a reasonable price, which shaw anyway, won't let you do.

[bradpvr]

This is why I was un-impressed with Snapstream touting HDTV support. It's really not a total solution, more of a hack I think.

[jdawson]

If all of us are forced to buy PVR's to record HDTV is their really any future for snapstream? It also limits the functionality of a media PC to a small degree as well.

[tenax]

well, for me, i'm not sure there is a future for hdtv! i don't have hdtv, even though i have a tv that can support..i have a regular digital box as of last year...i pay $96 per month canadian for my cable and internet services..and for that i get the full basic cable + 4 detroit channels (which i watch a lot more than local so i can have my primetime earlier in the evening) + 4 movie channel + high speed internet. and that doesn't count on the $190 i think the box cost me and buying out the modem to save me $5 a month (what a deal they had going there, eh? sell it to you for i think it was $40...or rent it for $60 a year..and how long have they made that kind of profit on these things before they allowed us to buy them from shaw?)anyway, i digress..point is..by the time i bought a recording hd pvr for say $600 as an average price..then how much for the "honour" of being supplied with hdtv from shaw..how big is my outlay on cable services of any kind now per month? i'm firmly NOT prepared to cross that $100 a month barrier to get hd tv as part of my service.

at one point, there was a logic for any cable company in canada anyway that to allow it to succeed and grow it's infrastructure, it needed to be based on a basic channel lineup that you paid for with no choice on that. those days are gone, and as the president i worked for used to say when he owned CMT on cable and was asked why, given he was a radio broadcaster, did he want to own a cable tv channel said.."owning a cable channel of any kind is a license to print money".

[btvguy]

right now its not beyondtv thats lacking, its the hardware able to capture an HD stream.

Currently the only way most users get HD content is with a cable or satelite box, currently the only way to get video out of like 90% of these boxes is using a DVI / HDMI / Component cable, to which there are NO capture devices (atleast in the sub 1000$ range) that can capture the signal in its full digital glory.

The only other way to get video out of a cable / satelite box is using a firewire cable, which even on most boxes that have one, its typically disabled or the content coming off of it is encrypted.

Its the same thing with an hdtv set, if you go out and get one, youve got two options HD-Ready and HD-Enabled. With HD-Ready sets you need to have an external device to tune and decode the hd signal and pass it down to the tv using its inputs. In HD-Enabled tv's you get the option of either embedded OTA (antenna) tuning, or one that is HD-DCR (digital cable ready) to which you can rent a cable-card from the cable company and the tv does the tuning and decryption of the content (wont work with satelite)

So right now our best bet for capturing HD is either going to be off an antenna, using a settop box from the cable company, or waiting for a cable-card compatible tuner. Only recently at CES has ATI shown off a cable-card ready capture device, unfortunatly it looks like its currently only supported by windows vista since it will likely require having certain encryption / content protection in-place to appease the content providers for it to even allow capture of HD streams at full HD quality, and with vista's current implementation you would need a modern video card with an HDMI/HDCP compaitble digital display to even view the conent at HD resolutions

[karhill]

Originally Posted by bradpvr

This is why I was un-impressed with Snapstream touting HDTV support. It's really not a total solution, more of a hack I think.

I don't agree that it's a hack. I don't have cable, nor do I have satellite. But I do have HDTV, thanks to BTV and OTA broadcasts. There are problems getting HD signals from a cable system, but that's a problem with the cable system, not BTV.

[tenax]

agree..snapstream is providing the software to allow it to be done..cable companies are screwing us. that being said, from most canadian's perspective at least, OTA hd tv is a pipe dream and hd capture pvr is useless to us at this point. it's just frustrating is all.

[tenax]

from the shaw site:

In Canada, though, it's not really an issue. Unlike the United States, we don’t have over-the-air HDTV broadcasts. Not surprisingly, then, HDTVs sold in Canada generally do not have ATSC tuners.
For the sake of simplicity, then, we’ll refer to all televisions capable of producing a widescreen picture at high-definition resolutions as "HDTVs."

[waz67]

There are people getting OTA HDTV in Canada, but you have to be near a broadcast tower. I think most of it is coming from the CN Tower, so if you're near there, you may be able to get some OTA. I'm about 60k away, I bought a tuner card and a cheap antenna, and get absolutely zilch. Not even a signal detected. Probably I need a bigger rooftop antenna, but I'm reluctant to spend the money and time when it still may net me nothing. The US stations seems to be broadcasting with *way* more power than the Canadian ones.

The other alternative is to use an HDTV cable box or satellite box and capture from its S-Video out. While this won't give you anything approaching a real HD quality, it should be better than regular cable or satellite, in theory. Anyone tried that and can comment on it?

[mrgrocery]

I have captured from my HD Box with S Video. It is a little better but not much than the regular SD video.

[RiderFan]

I capture using the RCA jack and line in on my PVR 250. HD is better, but not by much over SD. The plus about recording HD from my STB is that the aspect ratio is correct using letterbox where SD need to be stretched.

[dbroder]

well, for me, i'm not sure there is a future for hdtv! i don't have hdtv, even though i have a tv that can support..i have a regular digital box as of last year...i pay $96 per month canadian for my cable and internet services..and for that i get the full basic cable + 4 detroit channels (which i watch a lot more than local so i can have my primetime earlier in the evening) + 4 movie channel + high speed internet. and that doesn't count on the $190 [snip]

You're exactly right tenax. HD support in Canada blows. If we spend a bunch of money on HD equipment, we'll get something like 10 channels. What a waste. I have a HD-ready TV, but don't know if I'll ever use the HD capability. If I was to spend tons of $$ on HD, I want *ALL* of my channels in HD, not just 10 of them!

Anyways... all of this angers me, but it's based on lines on a map, nothing else. Canadian companies are to blame here, since they're not making HD available as widespread as they should/could. Of course, this is based on simple economics. Less people = less demand = less chance for HD at my bloody house.

Darren.

[tenax]

don't know about the u.s., but it seems cable service increases are like canadian postage stamp increases..expect them every year, whether they need the money or not!