BTV or MCE 2k5

[Fonze]

not sure this is the right section, but here it goes.

I currently use BTV as my primary TV viewing and recording app. I really love BTV and have been a loyal user for a few years. However, after seeing what microsoft is doing with Media Center edition, I'm not sure what I should do.

There are some things with BTV that I don't like:
1. poor quality of shows converted to wmv, which defaults to wmv7 and is very slow using wmv9
2. unreliable data in the guide when recording shows marked as new, sometimes repeats are actually new shows
3. cost for a second license when using 2 tuners
4. jittery playback using BTV Link when BTV is compressing a show

When I archive shows that I have recorded, I usually use Windows Movie Maker 2 to cut out commercials and compress it to wmv9. I use the wmv7 codec to showsqueze the show, but I only do this because the wmv9 one takes so long. I notice some bleeding of colors, especially in the shows I primarily archive which are cartoons, ie. south park and drawn together.
I have also noticed the development of BTV sagging a bit and I'm worried that the problems I have won't get fixed any time soon.

So, what do you guys recomend? Anyone here use MCE and BTV? I just don't want to waste money on MCE and then find out that BTV was the better choice.

[Deuce911]

[QUOTE=Fonze]
3. cost for a second license when using 2 tuners
QUOTE]


This is incorrect, the base software supports 2 Tuner capability. No need to purchase a second license.


I purchased a MCE machine 2 years ago and put it on the shelf since I wanted to archive my shows and with the "Copy Protection" that MCE uses you could not do that and still have it play on any PC or DVD player. I know there are programs that help with that now but why have the hassle. I started using BTV about 8 months ago and I wouldn't go back. My system now has 4 Tuners and 1.2TB of Memory and with the DVD Catalog Plugin I am getting ready to add another 1.2TB for DVD Storage. Lets see MCE store DVD's like that!


Thanks

Mike

[Fonze]

Originally Posted by Deuce911

I purchased a MCE machine 2 years ago and put it on the shelf since I wanted to archive my shows and with the "Copy Protection" that MCE uses you could not do that and still have it play on any PC or DVD player.
Mike

what "copy protection" is that?

[Brett]

Originally Posted by Fonze

what "copy protection" is that?

BTV uses standard MPEGs that can be thrown into MPEG-editors, copied to other computers/laptops, converted to DVDs easily, etc. MS uses some prioritiy format (I forget the exact name) but it locks down files, and (don't quote me here) I believe it supports the broadcast flag, which means the HD content has even further restrictions (like it will self-destruct in 7 days, etc.).

Plus, MS upgrades are hit and miss. For example I have heard of some certain machines from HP do not have the option of upgrading to MCE2004 to MCE2005 (without obviously just buying the OEM version). BTV is much nicer with upgrades, the "official" policy is all 3.x upgrades for free, and 4.x who knows. Speaking of which 3.5.2 will be entering private testing at the end of the week, that should resolve some of general bugs/issues you may be having with 3.5.1. Plus, they have a lot of cool other projects in R&D that will be coming out in the later months. I think (again another comment you can't quote me on) MS is pretty much now looking at the next MCE launch being longhorn based, which means no ETA for any time this year (and likely most of next).

-Brett

[DonK]

MSDVR format = pain in the rear if you want to archive
BTV + standard Hardware encoder card = golden if you want to archive

Besides, BTV is much more configurable and feature rich imho.

[Fonze]

well, after hearing about the copy protection I think i would rather stay with BTV.

what do you guys recomend for editing and converting shows? I guess I could edit the pure mpeg2 file in some program but I dono any good ones. When i put the mpeg2 file in movie maker 2 the audio sounded really low quality in the conversion.

Is there any trick to converting mpeg2 files to wmv? i want the smallest file size without losing quality, but I haven't experimented with it enough to find the optimal settings, and I really don't want to spend the countless hours doing that and trying to compare the image/audio quality.

have any good suggestions?

[Treetop]

Anyone here use MCE and BTV? I just don't want to waste money on MCE and then find out that BTV was the better choice.

Just got MCE the other day. Comes with a nice "frontend" for other media, but thats about it. The PVR app is pretty basic. It works, and works well, but..

For my particular setup... Dual-monitors, It just doesn't cut it.

In full screen mode, the mouse is "trapped" within the app itself (on the tv). Even worse, is that Girder can't target the application correctly (and as far as I can tell, its the app), so you have to give the app focus before sending any keyboard shortcuts... Again, not ideal for a dual-mon setup. -- imagine surfing the web and all of a sudden the mouse jumps to the tv, when my girl changes the channel -- Junk!

Another no go for me, is that the Hauppauge MVP can not play the files due to the DRM wrapper around them. Well, being that I use the MVP for the bedroom, and that it cost me about $70...Junk! I know that I could strip the DRM wrapper off the file, but why should I have to spend my precious CPU cycles (and my time) to do it... I say Junk!

Just installed BTV 3.5.1 (been on 3.4 for ages now) and am elated... I am not having any of the problems I have read about: fragmented files, streched pic with the 150, stuttering, etc.

MCE is a great app for those that like simple "plug and play" and can dedicate a computer to it... for me, its just not the right solution, but for many others I know... they swear by it.

Oh well, if nothing else I have another OS now, for the machine upstairs.

Some other annoying things about the PVR interface: you cant use the "time line" bar to move around the file. The transport buttons are ugly and cover up part of the "shrunk" tv when you go to the guide -- and thats not exactly that attractive either. When using the mouse, a big bar "floats down" from the top, only to display a back button (and a Help button?!?). In fact, the entire Real-estate (screen space) to Information ration is..well...Junk!

These are only some of my gripes... The biggest being that I have to run a batch file just to stop the MCE pvr services, so that BTV can use the tuners....Junk!

I think MCE is appealing to those that want (or need) an out of the box solution (ie. my parents), but its not for those that enjoy the behind-the-scenes customability that BTV offers.

BTV is somewhere in the middle when it comes to "Plug'n Play". You can set it up, right out of the box, and have a good experience.... but throw an extra hour into tweaking it, and you'll be in PVR nirvana. Now if they can just cut the hour to 1/2 hour... ie. detect the new Nvidia codec automatically...

Just my half-pence,

Treetop

[tomsteeper]

I switched over to using MCE2005 a few months ago, after too many frustrations with the 3.5 release (although the beta version ran a lot better).

The thing I like about MCE is that it "just works!". It may not be as configurable as BTV, Sage etc, but in all the months I have been using it, I have not had one recording fail. Now I have a PVR-500MCE installed in place of the 250 that was there, and again, after re-running the setup wizard, I was utilizing the dual tuners straight away.

One of my hobbies is building/fixing PC's etc, and I gave a lot of time to BTV to try and resolve the issues I was having.....which was inconsistent playback of recordings or LiveTV....almost like a strobe effect. I tried all of the suggestions to fix it and in the end decided that I was spending too long getting frustrated, and not enough time enjoying the shows I wanted to record.

I know that MCE has the "copy protection" wrapper around the file, but this can easily be removed (although the latest version of Nero will burn the files without doing this). As far as the broadcast flag is concerned, this is an FCC requirement, but I think only HBO is utilizing this at the moment, and then it only puts restriction on where you can view it, and not when it expires (if I understand this correctly).

I think the other thing to remember when comparing, is MCE is not just a BTV alternative. It is a BTV + BM alternative. It can play music, show pictures, play FM radio - and timeshift it, and play DVD's. I have ripped a few DVD to my hard drive and if you add this folder to the MyVideos setup they can be played directly from here.

But to finish, I really made this post to defend MCE, and not to bash BTV - BTV has great potential, and the multi-tuner recording engine is far more flexible (multiple lineups etc), but they need to fix all the small issues that I read here too. I keep my eye on these forums as I want to use my licence at some point in another PVR but want to wait until the main issues are fixed. Until this happens, I need a product that I can rely on to record the shows I want to watch. Certain shows we record are only shown once (24 for instance does not show repeats), and I would hate to miss one.

Tom

[NeilHHansen]

I was running BTV 3.5 and had purchased a copy of Beyond Media. I had it setup with 2 PVR250's and it ran without issue. A friend start researching MCE2005 and started outlining some of the features. I think the key things that caused me to give it a try were the HDTV Tuner Card (OTA) support and the way the interface is all connected.

From what I reseached the only thing I was going to be missing was the Smartskip and the Folder support.

I simply bought a OEM copy of MCE2005. and the remote. I had to buy a harddrive in the deal to support the OEM agreement. Setup was very easy, in fact easier than BTV. Programming the IR codes into my Pronto was simple and painless.

After installing it I found that what I thought I was going to be giving up would be missed. Instead of the Smartskip feature MCE2005 does have a skip ahead feature which just jumps ahead 20 secs or so. And it has a replay feature which is great for sports. The way the recordings are presented is actually better (IMO) as it is grouped by the day the recording took place.

The UI is smooth and there are some really cool UI transistions. It allows me to watch TV, DVD while I check the weather so I never miss anything. And I can flip back and forth. It has a nice upcoming movie listing complete with movie images, ratings, actors and description. Channel changes are much faster on coax in.

After spending time with it I found some cool Plugin's that support DVD Profiling, Stream Internet content (Radio and TV), Weather, Comics, etc.

At this time it does not have a snapstream.net component but Microsoft currently has it in beta. It only supports 2 analog tunner cards which must have the same channel lineup and input. Supports one digital card (HDTV or DTV). It is not as configurable as Snapstream. So these items may be an issue for some.

Personally, I am happy with my decision to switch. I plan to get my HDTV card in the next month or so and am excited at the prospect of being able to record this.

Another cool thing about MCE is the Extender. For around $300 you can replicate all the MCE content (music, pictures, recorded tv) to any TV in your house. The extender will also support plugin's. A little cheaper if you go with the XBOX extender.

I saw allot of negative posts on MCE2005 which were based on hearsay rather than facts. Just wanted to share my experiences.

[roygon]

I was a snapstream user (and happy with it actually) but switched to MCE 2005 a few months ago. MCE 2005 is very slick as has been mentioned. Very, very slick... And installation / configuration was ridiculously easy. You don't get a lot of options but the options they force you to use are usually the ones I would have spent hours configuring before.

I will actually be reinstalling Snapstream tonight and checking out the latest release of Beyond TV and Beyond Media to see how it compares.

I really miss commercial skip and web recording / guide... I'll be a little surprised if I end up going back to BTV after my trial tonight due to the overall package of MCE 2005 but we'll see... There are some cool plugins for BTV / BM which seem to be better than the MCE 2005 ones so that could push it ahead...

I'll post my unbiased findings after my attempt tonight. I think I can say unbiased because I've bought both packages and really liked both packages.

Regarding the "copy protection", it hasn't been an issue for me (yet) and what I've read is that all software will need to abide by this in the near future. There will always be ways around it but I guess my point is 1) it isn't a big deal and 2) shortly it will be less of a deal because they will all need to do it.

Microsoft will drive this type of technology to peoples living rooms and BTV, just by keeping their offer comparable to Microsoft's and keeping their software innovative, can benefit from this in a big way.

RG

[groebuck]

I've never had a problem, infact you can burn shows to dvd right in MCE2005. I agree it is very slick interface and easy as pie to set up and use. I am going to give 3.5.2 a whirl this weekend (I have two dual tuner PVR systems - the MCE2005 is in the Bonus room on the 50" LCD :lol

I will setup 3.5.2 on my bedroom system and give her the 21 day tryout

[crush157]

I have both due to MCE 2k5 supporting OTA HDTV Cards

BTV Pros (MCE 2k5 does not have these):

1) Commercial detection
3) Archive to WMV 7,8,9
4) Folder Management
5) snapstream.com web scheduling !!!!
6) Web based admin interface
7) No M$ file formats

MCE 2k5 pros (BTV does not have these):
1) OTA HDTV support
3) Ease of setup (In relation to less configurability overall)

This is my personal observation and may not be relevant to everyone.....


I use BTV for all my normal recording and the MCE 2k5 only for OTA HDTV.

[Edit] Sorry, my bad. Info on tuners and skip capabilities were wrong.

[Marsolin]

Originally Posted by crush157

I have both due to MCE 2k5 supporting OTA HDTV Cards

MCE 2k5 pros (BTV does not have these):
1) OTA HDTV support
2) multiple tuners > 2 with no license to buy
3) Ease of setup (In relation to less configurability overall)

This is my personal observation and may not be relevant to everyone.....


I use BTV for all my normal recording and the MCE 2k5 only for OTA HDTV.

MCE only supports the additional HDTV Tuner from what I've read. MS only lists support for 2 SD tuners.

[mlbdude]

FYI, MCE has skip forward and backward and a web program guide. 1 HD tuner and 2 SD tuners are supported. 2 HD tuners work but are not supported.