4:3 HDTV Resolution Question

[RogersRanger]

Today, I will be getting a new Geforce 6200 and some 25' Component cables to get my PC connected to my tv properly.

My TV is a pretty freakish 4:3, CRT, HDTV made by Toshiba .

My question is, what resolution should I run?

I don't think that I would like 720p very much, since it would be letterboxed from 36" down to 33". When I play a show BTV, I figure it will be letterboxed yet again, so my 36" TV would be effectively cut down to a 27" TV. I figured this out here.

Is 480p my only option, and if so, how do you folks like your 480p compared to normal?

I also have a question regarding optimization.

I have gathered, from reading the forums, that I need to download NVDVD and use the Nvidia decoder. Any other helpful hints?

[Rich A]

Originally Posted by RogersRanger

Today, I will be getting a new Geforce 6200 and some 25' Component cables to get my PC connected to my tv properly.

My TV is a pretty freakish 4:3, CRT, HDTV made by Toshiba .

My question is, what resolution should I run?

I don't think that I would like 720p very much, since it would be letter boxed from 36" down to 33". When I play a show BTV, I figure it will be letter boxed yet again, so my 36" TV would be effectively cut down to a 27" TV. I figured this out here.

Is 480p my only option, and if so, how do you folks like your 480p compared to normal?

I also have a question regarding optimization.

I have gathered, from reading the forums, that I need to download NVDVD and use the Nvidia decoder. Any other helpful hints?

That's a pretty nice looking TV. Can't comment on the HD and BTV thing. But if I were you, and your Video Card has a DVI output .. that's what I would use.

As far as the aspect ratio display of the screen goes, that TV looks to be a native 16:9 display. So your 16:9 TV signals will fill it. I think the 4:3 broadcast shows will be "pillar boxed" .. with bars on the side. Only when you went to a fixed letterbox which is less high than the 16:9 would you see horizontal bars on top and bottom. And since the display is already 16:9 native format, they won't be that bad. I've never had the pleasure of working with a device device that was as capable as that Toshiba. My display is a 4:3 native projected display.

Very simply .. if your display is native 16:9 then 4:3 views will be the same height and will be pillar boxed or bounded on the sides with black bars.

If your native display is 4:3 then "all" views will be the same width and only the heights will be different, thus having top and bottom horizontal bars.

That TV is 1080 capable so I think I'd start with the full resolution of 1920x1080 and use the DVI output of the video card to drive the DVI input of the TV. That's what I would try first. My Nvidia 6600 has all the outputs, DVI, VGA and S-video. My PJ has S-Video and VGA. The VGA of course gives the best quality and is easiest to set up. If I had a DVI input on the PJ, I'd prefer to use that. My maximum res. on the PJ is only 800x600 but even so, the down converted 1920x1080 looks fantantastic. Good luck with the TV .. it looks like a winner.

Take a look at the last example at the bottom of this page:

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/M...03/aspect.html

I believe that is what your TV will be like. (the last group of three) In that you will see that the blue outline is what your normal 16:9 (native) will be. Full screen, no bars. And as the text mentions, with a native 16:9 there won't be that much lost when viewing a standard letter-boxed size video.

[RogersRanger]

The DVI does not work. In the manual for the TV, it specifically states that the TV will not work with computers through DVI. I have been up and down that route before.

I know I will have to hook up to my TV through component. My TV is 4:3, so if I output to 1080i, I will be letterboxed down twice.

[nanook105]

I believe that I have the 34 inch version of that TV (not at home so I can't be sure). I've used the component and the DVI connections (at times both from a BTV server and a BTV Link) - both with 6600GTs

I didn't notice a significant difference in PQ between DVI and component. DVI was slightly better, but not much. The only real difference that I saw was the corners of the screen area. DVI did a better job not "rounding" the corners.

I also didn't notice a significant difference between 720 and 1080 (I'll have to update with the exact flavors I tried when I get home) when it came to video (live TV and watching recordings). However, it was almost impossible to use 1080 for anything but BTV because everything was so small and there was a "quiver" effect (especially toward the top of the screen). With 720, I am able to easily see everything in the native windows environment. If you want to use 1080, you can probably just switch back and forth if you need to do something in Windows (install SW, update drivers, etc). I also didn't like the "look" of the BTV screens/menus with 1080, but that is more personal preference.

I am also using the Nvida decoder. I'll update with my settings when I get home.

I can't speak for the 6200, but the combo of this TV, the 6600GT, and the NVidia decoder is outstanding (even for regular/analog signals). And with HD, it rocks.

[RogersRanger]

Weird, after looking at the web site, it does not state anywhere that the TV is truly 4:3, but it is.

[nanook105]

Originally Posted by RogersRanger

The DVI does not work. In the manual for the TV, it specifically states that the TV will not work with computers through DVI. I have been up and down that route before.

I know I will have to hook up to my TV through component. My TV is 4:3, so if I output to 1080i, I will be letterboxed down twice.

I contacted Toshiba tech support on the "will not work with computers", and they did not have any valid reasons why. I think that it is a CYA statement that is more related to burn in issues. It is up to you if you want to try it, but it worked fine for me. My family is very good about never leaving the TV on unless they are actively watching a show, so I'm not worried ablut burn in.

Also, with both 720 and 1080, there was a setting on the Nvidia decoder combined with using the stretch video aspect in BTV that displays the picture full screen.

[Rich A]

Originally Posted by RogersRanger

The DVI does not work. In the manual for the TV, it specifically states that the TV will not work with computers through DVI. I have been up and down that route before.

I know I will have to hook up to my TV through component. My TV is 4:3, so if I output to 1080i, I will be letterboxed down twice.

I would be SURPRISED if it were 4:3 .. the page you reference SAYS

16:9 FST PURE® Flat HD Picture Tube

And the picture of it sure does look like a 16:9 to me. And here is a graphic of what you should be looking at. (not to scale) but based on it being a 16:9 native display. Yours would be the bottom row example.

[RogersRanger]

The TV is DEFINITELY 4:3.

If you go to the details page and click on the 16:9 modes with vertical compression. It states

16:9 Modes with Vertical Compression
Toshiba provides two consumer selectable 16:9 Modes for display of a widescreen HDTV image on a 4:3 television. The Compression Mode creates black bars at the top and bottom of the screen and displays all 1080 lines inside the illuminated 16:9 portion of the screen. The Letterbox Mode actively scans the entire screen, creating gray bars above and below the picture area. This mode significantly reduces the chances of uneven CRT wear or "burn-in" when compared to the Compression Mode. The television is set in the full mode before leaving the factory and the final widescreen option is left to the consumer.
Benefit: Provides the consumer two options for display of 16:9 sources on their 4:3 HDTV Compatible television.

So if I do true 720p, or 1080i, there will definitely be letterboxing.

[Rich A]

Stop the presses. Geeshh, that Toshiba web site is terribly misleading. The set IS indeed 4:3 native. But I DID quote exactly their web site. I found out this by going to seller's web sites and looking at THEIR specs.

So instead of referring to the 2nd row in my example, you instead should refer to the first row. And yes indeed, you will be experiencing a double loss of vertical height. I was thinking that you didn't actually have the TV yet, but now I understand you do indeed have it ... and of course KNOW what the native screen mode is.

If it's any consolation more of the digital TV content is 16:9 as opposed to letterbox. Just color me and I stand corrected. (darn Toshiba propaganda)

[RogersRanger]

Seriously, I was under the same impression from the web site. You really have to dig deep to find the real info. If you download the .pdf with the printable spec sheet , it also gives some very interesting information. As a relative noob to the world of HD, I would really appreciate it if a pro would go on and look at the pdf to tell me what would be best for me. It says something about 540p, which I have never really heard about.

[RogersRanger]

Another question, since the TV's DVI input is DVI-D, and the computer is DVI-I, what cable would theoretically work? I am wondering if my new 6200 will work better than my Ti4200 with DVI.

[merrypig]

A DVI-D to DVI-D cable will work for you.

Since your TV is DVI-D only , you could not use a DVI-I cable to plug into it; a DVI-I cable has an extra, perpendicular spade for the analog portion and will not fit into the tv.

(BUT, you can take a pair of pinchers to it and cut off all the pins/spades to the right of the main 8x3 pin grid and then you CAN plug in a DVI-I cable your warranty will be shafted of course *8)


DVI-I is an integrated analog and digital connector that will accept a DVI-I, DVI-A or DVI-D cable.

There, I think that's as confusing as I can make the issue

[RogersRanger]

I ordered a DVI cable as well. When I get these things hooked up, what resolution should I run?

[merrypig]

80x25?

The right answer for any digital display is _ the native one_

A lot of digital displays specify a fixed clock frequency as their preferred signalling rate. They then instruct the graphics card to scale the output to match that clock rate. Invariably. this looks crap. (the graphics card still produces your set resolution but post scales it - so if your desktop is set to 800x600 but your display requires something insane like 1376x 888 (totally fictious mode) then the graphics hardware will try to scale your nice clean video up.

It usually doesn't do a very good job on things like text .

So, you are almost always better off setting your desktop resolution to match the native display resolution - which is where on pixel maps to one display element - and letting your graphics card _render_ to that resolution. It will usually do a better job as fonts will be properly scaled (truetype etc) to that format, and video may be antialiased or interpolated to remove artifact. (the final scaling is rarely very complex and can introduce artifacts).

And yes, even if your video is 720x480 - your picture quality itself will likely look better if you are running at the display resolution.

There are of course exceptions.

1/ Interlacing. Although the detail will be clearer when running at the native resolution this produces another problem. If the video display is interlaced, then you will now be introducing artifiacts by virtue of rendering to a non interlaced frame buffer - losing the odd/even line alignment - and then trying to spew it out to an interlaced display. With the de-interlacing filters in tv's you'll find it probably gets "soft" with some interlace artifacts still visible.

2/ Not all monitors/displays/tvs force a single resolution input. Some tv's particular are aware of different video modes and will present them letterboxed/pillar boxed . In this case, you should choose the native resolution of your video that matches your display.


But.. at the end of the day it boils down to the really simple option.

Try it. If you don't like it.. change it

It's a lot quicker to just test this than bother reading specs and figuring it out with theory

Set it to the desktop resolution you want so you can see enough of a menu/application on the screen, and then if it looks crap tweak it down from there.