BTV Link License Question

[coblesan]

Greetings!

My apologies if this proves redundant, but I've perused the boards and not see this answered (maybe I missed it), so here goes....

I'm curious to know whether the Beyond TV Link license is per computer or per connection to the server.

I'll have a couple machines around here which I'd like to use for accessing the BTV server, namely a wifi laptop and a desktop machine connected to a television. I won't ever need to watch from both the laptop and the desktop at the same time, so will one license do? Or is it rather the case that I'm supposed to have two licenses, one for the laptop and one for the desktop. I'm hoping it's the former, as that's less $$ and seemingly fair. (After all, the appropriate intent of the license is to let you watch rather than simply have a piece of software installed.)

So which is it?

Thanks!

MC

[Neilm]

Unfortunately it is per computer- each BTV Licence needs to have a unique serial number or it won't operate.

[flavius]

One license will do.

[coblesan]

Zooks!

I would seem my confusion extends to others as well. Neilm and flavius are giving me contradictory answers here. For now, the nod goes to flavius since he's been around the boards longer and has more posts, a snappy icon, and a gear-expounding sig. (No offense Neilm!)

Anyone 'official' from SnapStream care to weigh in on this?

Thanks!

MC

[merrypig]

The difference in the opinions above is the difference between what the EULA states and what is physically possible.

BTV doesn't track which computer is logging in via the link license. It merely ensures only one session is active at a time. So from that perspective you could install the same key on multiple machines and access btv one at a time. It would however be likely to be a matter of time before ss close that and start locking to a particular machine. (may actually have done so for all I know, I haven't tried it )

However, the EULA does state that it is per computer. So legally you could not share your license.

We tried to get SS to change it... nothing happened and they've decidely quiet on the whole issue - even amongst the select beta group.

[flavius]

Adobe, for example, ran into all kinds trouble doing just that for Adobe 7 (full version). Supposedly future versions of windows will make those things a lot easier.

[dlandrum]

The last "license" problem I had was with 3.5.0. I own a BTV license and two BTV Link licenses.

I had two Link machines that were using DHCP. After doing some reboots, I might get a message that another computer on the network was using the same license key.

I was able to reproduce the issue by doing a shutdown of both Link machines, and then starting the machine that had the larger IP address. When it came up, it received the lower IP address of the other Link machine. The BTV Server had been up the whole time. When I tried to connect to it, I would get the license key error message. It thought there were two IPs using the same license key ... although it should have throught that there were two licenses for one IP too ... but that is just good Sales.

I quickly switched the Link machines to static IP and have not seen the error since.

So, back to your question... based upon what I saw, I think you would get an error message from BTV when the 2nd machine attempted to connect. When the BTV app is shutdown and restarted on the server, it seems to forget which machine had which license.

[coblesan]

Thanks for the speedy clarification, one and all!

And in light of merrypig's comments, I must reiterate to SnapStream that which I posited in my first post: SnapStream's BTV Link license should be for watching (i.e. concurrency) not for installed clients (i.e. computers). Sure, you stand to make more money on the latter, but the former places the economic value of the license where it belongs: on watching content on remote devices. If various members of my family want to watch different content concurrently from many devices, then sure, I should have multiple BTV Link licenses. But I shouldn't be penalized for having many devices if I simply want to watch one bit of content with any one of these devices at any one point in time. (I belabor my point, so I'll move on....)

And finally, dlandrum's quandry suggests a technical ruse (that surely runs afoul of the EULA, but...), perhaps place a proxy in front of the BTV server, and use BTV Link from any and many IPs, and.... Hmmm. Or, yea, go the static IP route.

Thanks one and all for the thoughtful responses.

Happy viewing! (And recording, and timeshifting, and scheduling, and playing back, and....)

[merrypig]

Proxying the API has been specifically declared a violation of the API.

This one one option that M**** users wanted to use in order to access show info on the server remotely but did not use btv link itself. (you can't access the api remotely without a link license). The workaround was to query on the server then reexpose it to m**** via a custom piece of code. rkuo and others stomped on that as violating the EULA.

[Neilm]

Dlandrum's experiences relate to my own- I was unable to connect different PC's with the same BTV Link licence, even if only one was active, hence my original reply.

Maybe LAN topology has an impact?

[flavius]

Just a thought.
The only leverage we have as customers is buying - or not to buy. Is that true?

We can make some noise here, and we have. In the past, Snapstream has been paying attention to some particular issues that were raised here, in this forum. Other issues have been ignored. Well, that's up to them. Who cares? I do.

I'm one of those who wouldn't like to see Snapstream go belly up, since it's the only PVR solution I really like (I certainly could live with others, if I'd have to). When I was young and got my first machine, I took the software I needed from where I could find it, since I couldn't affort to pay for it. Later on, after I had become a software engineer myself, and would have been able to pay for everything, I went open source, since I had learned a lot more about the software bussiness.

Today, (since I do care) I still find it worth noting, that Snapstream is making several grave mistakes here. One of them is the BTV Link license issue - but far more important is that Snapstream demands to retain the IP on all code written as extensions, plugins etc. When the SDK was announced, Snapstream did not even respond when asked what the license model would be. If that's it what it takes to keep Snapstream a float..

That's where it ends for me. I wonder if they are aware of BSD-style licenses? Shouldn't they?

Snapstream could be in a different place today - if they had learned from what instead they have been trying to capitalize on.

One license will do, until further notice. No, do not buy, until absoutely necessary.

[not_Shorty]

hmph, I see this is in fact an old issue that isn't what I thought it was. I, too, think a per-connection license makes much more sense. There's not a chance in hell that I'll ever buy, say, five licenses for Link when I am one of three people that will ever use them. Currently I've got two licenses. And currently I've got Link on three machines. And currently it's actually rare that the two licenses are being used at once. My future expansion plans include a couple more machines, but the number of users is not going to go up. I really fail to see the point of buying five Link licenses when two will suffice. The only thing that would accomplish in my mind is nurturing contempt. Now I'm disappointed, heh.

[tscales]

I would argue in SS favor. I only use one of my computers at a time. Should I only need one copy of XP, Office, Photoshop, etc.?

They have to support each configuration on which you install it. If you have problems on Machine A and Machine B, then they have to support them both.

So you should pay for both.

Now a 'whole house' license makes sense. More than an individual, less than the total.

Tom

[TinMan!]

Originally Posted by tscales

I would argue in SS favor. I only use one of my computers at a time. Should I only need one copy of XP, Office, Photoshop, etc.?

They have to support each configuration on which you install it. If you have problems on Machine A and Machine B, then they have to support them both.

So you should pay for both.

Your argument is not strong. Right off the bat, MS Office: my copy allows an installation on two PCs, as long as they aren't running concurrently. Exactly like what is being asked for here.

Moreover, BTV checks to see if two Link licenses are in use concurrently and disallows a connection if it is attempted.

And is it not OK EULA-wise to move Link to another PC? Should one come up with a method to script that process to a one-button solution, how is that different than merely loading Link on multiple PCs, yet never using more concurrently than you purchase a license for?

I look at this more like a MS Terminal Services (per user) license: just because the TC client is installed on a machine doesn't mean it can do anything if the server won't accept a connection due to the connection count. Sounds a lot like BTV Link (the client) talking to BTV (server). The client is useless without the server.

As far as "support" from Snapstream is concerned... well that is too much of joke to even get into. These forums are the support.

I personally have never liked Snapstream's policies, support, and general attitude. While I am a BTV/Link "fan" (i.e., I "purchased" them) I am not all that fond of the company itself. It's a shame, since IMO it's these "little" arrogance-tainted decisions that add up. God help them should a decent contender come out. Unfortunately, Media Center ain't it.

IMHO, YMMV, HAROM, etc., etc.


--
Mike

[Darkk]

This could fall into something like Microsoft's CAL scheme. So when you purchase BTV you would have the option of purchasing the CALs for BTV links. The server would keep track of number of connections based on the CALs purchased.

I think this is a fair game. I mean if you want to purchase 5 licenses of BTLink for 5 computers and only use 3 at a time then that's your choice which is what I still believe in. While others will purchase maybe 2 licenses and install it on 3 computers then that's their choice too.

I like to make sure Snapstream stay in business and continue to improve the product. What I don't want to see a mess of licensing checks being too restrictive like the Microsoft's stupid activation crap. I have rebuilt my HTPC three times and never had a problem getting BTV to run on the same license since I know it connects to Snapstream's server for license check which is painless to me. Way cool when I purchased the DVD plug-in for 4.5 it automatically activated that feature without doing anything on my part.

Darkk