The future of Beyond TV and SnapStream

[TomXP411]

I've been thinking about this, and I've come to the conclusion that the only reason I still have Windows XP on my machine is to support BTV, and the only reason I have BTV is because WMC won't talk to my cable box without additional hardware.

The day I find out I can use a CableCard tuner, I'm ordering one and upgrading my Media PC to Windows 7/WMC. BTV works, and it works well, but without a true HD capture solution, I don't see a reason to keep using it. (Yes, I know about the HD-PVR. I had one. I don't have one any more, and I will *not* be buying another one.

[theoldwizard]

Originally Posted by DonK

I actually had the same experience with clear qam as you did at first, but my cable company suddenly changed their entire lineup and removed a few lower channels and added the clear qam locals starting at 100 and gave them lineup items. So for now, clear QAM is good for me, but I would like cablecard support eventually so I can dvr SyFy HD and Comedy Central HD

I guess I should not complain too much as Bright Hosde Livonia, MI has moved all clear QAM channnels to 200-300 and they line up exactly with the < 100 analog channels.

It is just I liked how easy it was to set up analog cable and OTA digital.

If I was a new customer, buying BTV to watch clear QAM, I would remove it from my system and take it back to the store and demand a refund. That is what I think of setting up QAM !

[jnaranjo]

i do not see a statement regarding future sales of BTV or the extenders... in the consumer market of course
any information to share there?

[key master]

Originally Posted by TomXP411

I've been thinking about this, and I've come to the conclusion that the only reason I still have Windows XP on my machine is to support BTV, and the only reason I have BTV is because WMC won't talk to my cable box without additional hardware.

The day I find out I can use a CableCard tuner, I'm ordering one and upgrading my Media PC to Windows 7/WMC. BTV works, and it works well, but without a true HD capture solution, I don't see a reason to keep using it. (Yes, I know about the HD-PVR. I had one. I don't have one any more, and I will *not* be buying another one.

Following through on my previous post, I upgraded to Win7 Media Center 64-bit from BTV on my HTPC and am loving it. I'm slowly setting stuff up the way I like and I must make a comment: WMC is so much better at handling clear QAM. Comcast keeps switching channels on me so the moment I notice it, I spend 1-2 hours in BTV remapping all the channels. WMC... it actually reads in the channel tags and AUTOMATICALLY maps them to the guide. So right there, the main channels are taken care of.

Every setting is accessible via remote, which actually was a welcome change (no webadmin). I was comparing settings between BTV and WMC and *to me* the only important feature missing from WMC is drive pooling. You are forced to "extend" the volume in Win7 to add extra hard drives since WMC only lets you record to one "volume". The other thing is there is no software extender (like BTV link), but the work-around is to sell your $500 extender PC and buy a $200 XBox360, which works as an extender. Apparently you can play games on it as well

Also, Microsoft just released the firmware update for the ATI cards to allow encrypted cable cards to work with W7MC... you can now DVR encrypted channels.

Goodbye BTV - you have served me very well for years.

-Jim

[system001]

corporate sellout is all i have to say.

[ijourneaux]

Key Master

Could you point us to the info the ATI cards and encrypted QAM? Thanks

[cfaslave]

Originally Posted by ijourneaux

Key Master

Could you point us to the info the ATI cards and encrypted QAM? Thanks

he's talking about this stuff

[ijourneaux]

Wow. This would seem to be the answer to the path forward for the encrypted QAM over cable. I have been toying with getting an HD-PVR but cable card would seem to be the answer. Does MediaCenter support multiple tuners?

I would hate to give up BeyondTV but the SD quality of SyFy with Charter is awful. Would relaly like to get the HD version.

Take Care

[ChefJoe]

I think Windows Media Center is limited to 4 tuners. I'm sure someone will find a way to extend that number, eventually.

[key master]

Originally Posted by ChefJoe

I think Windows Media Center is limited to 4 tuners. I'm sure someone will find a way to extend that number, eventually.

My understanding is that Windows 7 out-of-the-box supports up to 4 tuners PER TYPE... 4 analog + 4 QAM/OTA + 4 cable card. You could thoeretically have up to 12 tuners... maybe 16 - not fully sure if OTA is considered different than QAM as far as tuner count. There was a hack in Vista to increase this... none yet for 7.

Also, you can buy ATI cable card tuners here:
Cannon PC - The Best Media Centers and Accessories

Right now, they are the only CableLabs approved cable cards you can buy that I know of. The Ceton card will be the one to get when it comes out in 2010 Q1, since it supports up to 6 tuners per ONE card:

Ceton Corp.

Hopefully the price won't be too crazy. And to those who are curious, my HTPC passed Microsoft's "cable card" system test and I display via component out... so apparently HDCP isn't required. I think it would be pretty funny if the Media Center developers said to Hollywood "we will require digital display connections to show encrypted content" and then turned around and made that a requirement, but had the program not check to see if that digital display output is the actual one being used...

P.S. I mean no disrespect to Snapstream, and I don't think any is taken given that they will no longer be developing BTV for the consumer market. The fact that they will release any future consumer (minor) versions is a testament to the current customers who choose to stay with their product. Bravo!

-Jim

[nwbear]

Thanks so much for providing this information. I've been seeing the writing on the wall for some time, starting with the drop off of support on the HD-PVR.

Seeing that Windows 7 included PVR functionality with new computers I couldn't imagine any company continuing to develop a competing product. I think your competition will follow you out of the market and, as disappointed as I am with Snapstream's decision, it makes business sense and I would do the same.

[Zogg]

Originally Posted by nwbear

Thanks so much for providing this information. I've been seeing the writing on the wall for some time, starting with the drop off of support on the HD-PVR.

Seeing that Windows 7 included PVR functionality with new computers I couldn't imagine any company continuing to develop a competing product. I think your competition will follow you out of the market and, as disappointed as I am with Snapstream's decision, it makes business sense and I would do the same.

At face value this is a logical conclusion, but once you start digging into the feature set of WMC (7 or earlier) you quickly find that it lacks a lot of features for a whole house setup.

If you are only going to watch shows on the main system TV and maybe one other, where that Xbox 360 sits, then it's great and it does have some nice user experience features lacking in BTV.

But if you are setting up a system where shows can be watched in multiple rooms, then I don't think WMC cuts it since I don't want an Xbox 360 in every room. Even if you set up a PC running Win7 so it can see the main system's recordings, you don't get Live TV or the same GUI for setting up recordings, as best I can tell. You can just see a list of recordings to choose from.

But don't get me wrong, I don't think BTV is there either, and unfortunately won't get there. The dedicated STB like Sage offers is the way to go for rooms where you don't want to have a full computer, but that isn't an option. There are some nice, very small computers like the Acer Aspire Revo's that fill the bill, but unfortunately they are computers and have to be set up and maintained to some degree, unlike a STB that just works with very little maintenance.

There's more that could be said but you get my gist, I'm sure. I like the WMC7 eye candy for sure, it's a great job for what it is. And if you have one system only then it's a very viable option. But for a whole house system, IMO it doesn't cut it. And slowly but surely, neither does BTV. For now it works great for me, but over time I fear that I will slowly be pushed toward Sage.

[cfaslave]

I agree with Zogg on this one. I have Windows 7 installed on several PCs and while Windows 7 MC is nice looking and all, it is far from a game changer in any respect. If you're looking for a one-box solution for a single TV it's good. If you want to extend to a TV via a video game machine (with some noise) it's okay. But beyond that, it pales in comparison to BeyondTV and SageTV imo.

[Bigbird999]

Originally Posted by cfaslave

I agree with Zogg on this one. I have Windows 7 installed on several PCs and while Windows 7 MC is nice looking and all, it is far from a game changer in any respect. If you're looking for a one-box solution for a single TV it's good. If you want to extend to a TV via a video game machine (with some noise) it's okay. But beyond that, it pales in comparison to BeyondTV and SageTV imo.

Not to nention all the issues that comes with the M$oft implementation of DRM and the proprietary wtv recording formats on TV shows. For many, that is a dealbreaker.

BB

[ZetaVu]

Same thing with Cablecard, from what I've read DRM will be imposed, meaning that all recordings will be limited to one machine, subject to forced expiration, and they even have the option of downgrading performance. I mentioned either in this thread or a similar one, WMP7 in my opinion is like Paint or windows moviemaker, its like bloatware included with the software, people who never use it might find it useful, but anyone serious about what they are doing find it primitive and unsuitable for them. I think WMC7 might make a good front end for a proper DVR, but I don't see it as a challenge let alone a replacement for BTV or Sage.

If only they let you remove the tv engine, like Media Portal does...