Why DivX is a hoax

[Vhyperion]

For those on the list asking for DivX support I have bad news- it's a hoax and a waste of time. I've taken a look under the hood and Windows Media Video (like it or not) is about 30-40% better quality/smaller size than DivX or ISO MPEG-4.

The developers of DivX pulled a fast one- they didn't even hack Microsoft's MS-MPEG-4 codec. They just dropped the MS-MPEG-4 v3 codec engine into a new dll wrapper, locked (or eliminated) properties and then changed the file extension back to AVI. Also, it isn't MPEG-4. There's only one standard for MPEG-4: ISO MPEG-4. While MS-MPEG-4 is based in work Microsoft gave to the MPEG-4 working group, the two are completely different, making DivX (and it's twin MS-MPEG-4) an MPEG-4 BASED codec. Tom's Hardware got it wrong.

As for Project Mayo or 3ivX, be VERY skeptical of claims of cross-platform, open-source support. If they are ISO MPEG-4 based, they will likely owe royalties to the MPEG-4 IP holders, just like every DVD player you buy.

Hate to be a damper, but the rapid spread of the DivX hoax makes the rest of us who are in the video profession look bad and the people asking for DivX, worse.

[Dolemite]

I fear your information is quite off base. The DivX;-) codec is far superior to WMF as far as compression and quality, its only drawback is that one must have an iota of intelligence to use it. It isn't as simple, but the end result is that for large projects (DVDs), FlaskMPEG can encode a 90 minute video with full DVD quality in about 300 Mb, while a comparably sized WMF movie will have resolution substantially less than DVD quality, and with tons of artifacts.

It is worth noting, though, that these codecs aren't quite legal, and snapstream can't really integrate them into its product. However, it would be nice if one had the option of using one's own video/audio codecs instead of being stuck with Windows Media.

[nullsmack]

This kind of stuff just pisses me off. DivX ;-) is a hoax? I suppose you believe professional wrestling is real too? I do not know how many shows I've seen that have been recorded into divx with more than acceptable quality. Divx is the future of computer based pvr work and the divx 'sequels' are its children.

I have been looking for support in snapstream for more than just one codec.. I'm tired of being tied to the asf ball and chain. ASF and WMV/WMA are THE most horrible file formats I have ever had the displeasure to work with. What tools do you have to work with them? To edit your video? With Divx, and it's similar or better video quality, and the FACT that it's in .avi format, makes it easier to use and more open. Comparing asf/wmv and avi is like comparing Tivo to computer based pvr... The former is closed, the latter is open.

Speaking of which, project mayo is open source now. www.projectmayo.com (http://www.projectmayo.com)

[MixedBidness]

Umm no. If you look at the DCT error pattern between DivX:-) and Microsoft's older MS-MPEG-4 v3 codec with the same prop settings, you will see a 1:1 relationship. Why? Because DivX IS MS-MPEG-4 (two generations behind WMV8). Here's how they do it:

1. Create a new wrapper DLL that "hacks" Microsoft's weak encryption for codecs.
2. Embed MS-MPEG-4 v3 codec engine and make the default registered file extension .avi
3. Mod the props on the codec- lock in the IFrame setting, mod the buffer length.
4. Create two versions of the codec- one with props locked for low-bitrate, another for high-bitrate.
5. Convince complacent and non-technical masses that you've created something better and open.

Your comment about .avi exemplifies that you do not understand video codecs.
Proof and point: rename a .asf file .avi and play it locally. Guess what.... it works.

And for those who think that OpenDivX is open source, think again. READ the licensing agreement. NOTE the numerous removed copyright statements of the original creators of the MoMuSys MPEG-4 codec, and NOTE the lack of video quality. If encoding 1-1.5 frames per second is the future, I'll take Microsoft any day.

Originally posted by nullsmack:
This kind of stuff just pisses me off. DivX ;-) is a hoax? I suppose you believe professional wrestling is real too? I do not know how many shows I've seen that have been recorded into divx with more than acceptable quality. Divx is the future of computer based pvr work and the divx 'sequels' are its children.

I have been looking for support in snapstream for more than just one codec.. I'm tired of being tied to the asf ball and chain. ASF and WMV/WMA are THE most horrible file formats I have ever had the displeasure to work with. What tools do you have to work with them? To edit your video? With Divx, and it's similar or better video quality, and the FACT that it's in .avi format, makes it easier to use and more open. Comparing asf/wmv and avi is like comparing Tivo to computer based pvr... The former is closed, the latter is open.

[nullsmack]

Originally posted by MixedBidness:
Umm no. If you look at the DCT error pattern between DivX:-) and Microsoft's older MS-MPEG-4 v3 codec with the same prop settings, you will see a 1:1 relationship. Why? Because DivX IS MS-MPEG-4 (two generations behind WMV8). Here's how they do it:

1. Create a new wrapper DLL that "hacks" Microsoft's weak encryption for codecs.
2. Embed MS-MPEG-4 v3 codec engine and make the default registered file extension .avi
3. Mod the props on the codec- lock in the IFrame setting, mod the buffer length.
4. Create two versions of the codec- one with props locked for low-bitrate, another for high-bitrate.
5. Convince complacent and non-technical masses that you've created something better and open.

Your comment about .avi exemplifies that you do not understand video codecs.
Proof and point: rename a .asf file .avi and play it locally. Guess what.... it works.

And for those who think that OpenDivX is open source, think again. READ the licensing agreement. NOTE the numerous removed copyright statements of the original creators of the MoMuSys MPEG-4 codec, and NOTE the lack of video quality. If encoding 1-1.5 frames per second is the future, I'll take Microsoft any day.



1) the source code is there. You can download it, compile it, edit it, recompile it, load it on linux, macos, cpm, unix, solaris, dos, qnx, beos.. load it on mips, sh4, arm, strongarm, etc. places that a wrapped win32 .dll can't go

2) I do understand video codecs, thank you very much. Rename a .asf to a .avi huh? ok, wmp still reads it, because it's made for stupid ppl. Try moving it to a different platform and letting one of the original linux programs and their "win32 wrapped" codecs try to read it. asf and avi are two completely different formats, they can hold te same data but the difference is like rar and zip.. if you have a program that can read both, then you're fine.. but if you can only unzip, then you need a zip, not an rar.

AND while we're on the subject. GPL!=open source.. source code freely available to download via internet=open source.
period

BTW, ALL and I mean ALL new versions of divx or mpg4 based video codecs that are coming out now. mayo, divx duex, etc, etc, are not based on a hack on the microsoft codec. They may have been first, that doesn't make them the only.

If you can't wrap it around your mind that divx is becoming more than the bastard codec that you'd like it to be, then go back to your unsupported asf and wmv files, go ahead. try to convert them to anything else in virtual dub or any other serious video program. virtual dub, for one, wont support it because of LEGAL PRESSURE from microsoft. ASF!=AVI. Get it through your head and come back when you understand. (BTW, != is DOES NOT EQUAL, if you're really stupid enough to not know that)

BTW, the only complacent and non technical ppl are the microsoft and aol supporters like yourself. Oh and the complete idiots.. but I repeat myself.

[JimAmp]

Being no apologist, I feel I must side with the M$ apologist here.

DivX:-) is a hacked version of Microsoft's MS-MPEG-4 codec. Admittedly so by it's developers.

Clearly you're not an open source purist. Neither of you are wrong depending upon your definition. DivX Deux was NOT GPLed, nor released under any standard open source license. For example, you have to seek permission of the DivX Deux group to release any commercial content in the format.

While we're on the topic of format, read the comments on other forums about DivX Deux ripping the copyright notices from the code written by members of the MoMuSys MPEG-4 project and replacing it with their own. Sounds like they're standing on the shoulders of giants trying to progress the industry for good whilst urinating down their backs.

MPEG-4 = is over three years old AND covered by the US's Patent Laws. How many of us have a browser that hasn't been updated in three years? Sorry mate, Divx and Divx Deux were dead on arrival. There's no business model for pirate technology. Don't think for one second that DivX or DivX Deux were created out of the kindness of their developer's hearts. They're in it to make money for their venture capitalists (Happy Machines). Napster part Deux.

Then again, De mortuis nihil nisi bonum. (Say nothing but good about the dead)

I don't know what your issue is with the other bloke, but reducing yourself to meager name calling is not helping your cause.

Cheers
Jim

[rakeshagrawal]

we now have very preliminary support in PVS for recording using AVI capture -- accordingly, standard AVI codecs like DivX are now supported.

try this out and send us your feedback!

[mydivx]

Originally posted by MixedBidness:
Umm no. If you look at the DCT error
And for those who think that OpenDivX is open source, think again. READ the licensing agreement. NOTE the numerous removed copyright statements of the original creators of the MoMuSys MPEG-4 codec, and NOTE the lack of video quality.


You narrow mindness is showing ;-). If you have bothered to look at the source code at all you will notice that where it is appropriate the Projet Mayo team has put all the MoMuSys Copyright statements where they used the code in accordance to the licensing agreement. As a matter of fact the decoder is 100% MoMuSys free and by the time the project is through I will be suprised if there is any MoMuSys code left. So you ask why start with MoMuSys? Because of it's solid MPEG-4 design, plain and simple.

As to your your comments regarding the Frame Rate. The latest version of the codec has almost doubled the original release. You have to remember this is still in Alpha stage an will be for another few months till the first Beta is released. By that time I would expect optimizations and speed enhancments will be the last of their concerns. The CORE is what is important and has already taken them 9 months of work to get where they are at now.

Reserve judgement till we have a final 4.0 release. Until then test and send in bug reports to help further development instead of worthless complaints!=anything.

Regards,

Dan Marlin www.mydivx.com (http://www.mydivx.com)

[<Kero>]

All I can say is this is funny. I'm not too knowledgable about DivX vs. MS compression/quality ration, but I'm under the impressiong that DivX is better. DivX used to be a hacked version of the MS MPEG-4 Codec, but no longer is as such. And in order to settle the debate about DivX or MS, why not partake in a non-biased test. Read up on how to compress both MS acceptable formats and DivX acceptable. And I mean REALLY read up on them. Then take a video (lets say an uncompressed MPEG) and convert it using both MS and DivX codecs. Take a close look at what you get, hell, even analyze it, and see how it all works out. Just go about it with an open mind and that will settle your debate.

[<festivalman>]

he talks about divx ;-) being the hacked MS codec. he's correct on this. divx.com however is not divx ;-). It's rewritten from the ground up, and as another here mentioned, with enough intelligence can be made to do some amazing things with multi-pass encoding. what I want to know about however, is this post:

----
we now have very preliminary support in PVS for recording using AVI capture -- accordingly, standard AVI codecs like DivX are now supported.

try this out and send us your feedback!
----

where is this? where can we download this?

[PBMax]

AVI capture was supported in Snapstream PVS 1.2. As of Snapstream PVS 1.5 it was removed because of it's unstable nature. It may be reintegrated at a future time.

I'm closing this thread because of the confusion it will cause in the future.