Need help picking a cheap HDTV (1080i, 720p, 480i/p)

[cmcquistion]

I'm really wanting a buy an HDTV and Bestbuy regularly sells the RCA D52W23 (52", Rear Projection, DVI and component inputs) for about $1000. This is pretty much the limit of my budget. I know that rear projection HDTV's aren't considered the best, but I've read a couple reviews of this set and people have generally good things to say about the picture quality, after they have tweaked it.

I looked up the technical specs and this set supports 1080i, 420i, and 420p, but it does not support 720p. Now I've read that 720p generally looks better than 1080i (http://alvyray.com/DigitalTV/Naming_Proposal.htm), but I'm wondering if I am using BTV to output 1920x1080 and let the computer do the interlacing and scaling, if the picture quality could be pretty good? I've read that computers can do far better scaling than external scalers, especially those built into TV's and projectors. (http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/HTPC.html)

For what it's worth, my local OTA HD stations seem to broadcast mostly in 420p and 720p, so my BTV system would be scaling the picture up and outputting in an interlaced format (1080i.). Right now, I'm watching these programs on a 19" CRT @ 1280x960, so the 720p programs basically stay in 720p, and the SD programs are upscaled. The picture quality of SD and HD is outstanding, but the screen is small.


Upon further examination, I discovered that some of my local HDTV stations ARE broadcasting in 1080i, so I have 480p, 720p and 1080i signals.


I want to continue to have great picture quality, but have a big TV. Is this cheap set worth considering? Is 1080i necessarily a bad thing, if I have a computer that does the scaling and interlacing output (as opposed to having the TV do the scaling and interlacing?)

Is there another inexpensive option? I've considered front projection, but it looks to be more expensive and far more complicated to set up. I don't mind the complicated part, but the complexity doesn't necessarily meet WAF.

[Varian]

I have the RCA 61" and it's OK. Nothing spectacular like the new Samsungs I was drooling over at Circuit City, but for a rear-projection it's not bad.

I don't use 1080 resolution on mine from the PC, I stay at 720. There is a DVI input on mine (I believe same as the one you are looking at) and the one (somewhat major) problem is that for some reason my nvidia card doesn't like it. I can "Treat Digital Display as HDTV" but do not have the options to set it to 720p (or 1080i or even 480p). I've reinstalled the drivers twice and it just doesn't pick up the TV as a valid HDTV device for some reason. It's a somewhat major problem because I have to constantly tweak my setup when I reboot to force it to 720p by using TVTool. It's a complete pain in the cornhole. So caveat emptor on that one. I'm almost considering taking it back to get a true display -- even if you're not a videophile the difference is completely noticeable. So...the old adage holds true, you get what you pay for.

[fragmore]

Take a look here

http://www.outlet.philips.com/b2c_redesign/b2c/catalogForward.do?catalogEntry=true&shop=OUTLET

[cmcquistion]

Take a look here

http://www.outlet.philips.com/b2c_redesign/b2c/catalogForward.do?catalogEntry=true&shop=OUTLET

Take a look at what? Are you recommending something is particular or are you a Philips Electronics troll?

[tscales]

Depends on how big you want to go. I went with the Westinghouse 37" LCD which does 1920x1080p. Unbelieveable.

They make it in a 40" now too.

Great value.

[cmcquistion]

Depends on how big you want to go. I went with the Westinghouse 37" LCD which does 1920x1080p. Unbelieveable.

They make it in a 40" now too.

Great value.

How much was it? I'm trying to stay under $1000.

What it this one? (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7749653&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat31800050030&id=1140394400806)

[tscales]

more than that, unfortunately. But once you go 1080p, you'll never go back

[Initri]

I have a 44" Panasonic LCD Projection TV and I *love it*. It's model # is PT-44LCX65.

Panasonic's Site (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=93383&catGroupId=24976&modelNo=PT-44LCX65&surfModel=PT-44LCX65&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702)

I know it's a bit more than you've budgeted.. but I was able to get mine fairly inexpensively at Circuit City. I highly recommend this TV. Short features:

HDMI Input, 3x Component Input, 3x Composite Input, CableCard, VGA Input, Cable Input, HDTV Tuner.

It does great with my BTV machine (Component out on nVidia card), Digital Cable HD, and OTA HD (antenna direct hookup). It's an awesome set.

(BTW - if you can save some extra, I was able to get mine for $1350)

- Matthew

[cmcquistion]

I can't seem to find that Panasonic available, locally, and I don't feel comfortable buying something like this on mail order. That price is certainly pretty good, though.

*EDIT* Wal-Mart seems to have a simliar model for $1358, but online order only:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4891099

I'm now seriously considering the 37" Westinghouse LCD LVM-37W1 that does 1080P. It is available locally for $1500, if I can scrape together that much cash.

*EDIT 2* I have stopped looking at large rear projection TV's because they don't pass WAF. I have to find a TV that isn't too deep and doesn't look like a giant behemoth... This is one reason I'm now considering LCD's.

[cmcquistion]

tscales, what is the model number of your Westinghouse?

I've found the LVM-37W1 and the LVM-37W3. I'm not sure what the difference is, but the first one is about $1500 and the second is about $1700.

*EDIT* According to specs on Westinghouse's site, the LVM-37W3 has slightly better response time (8ms vs 12 ms), slightly longer bulb life (60,000 hrs vs 50,000 hrs) and includes an HDMI port, along with all the same connectors as the LVM-37W1 (which has two DVI, one VGA, two component, etc.) For me, I'm not sure these improvements are worth it. If my math is correct, you would have to run a refresh rate higher than 83 Hz to see any response time improvement under 12 ms. I'm sure these monitors don't support refresh rates that high, so it is a moot point. The bulb life, even at 50,000 hrs is exceptional and will last 17 years, if I watch TV 8 hours a day. Lastly, I don't need HDMI, since I use an HTPC. DVI is perfect for me and both models come with two DVI ports, plus a VGA port, along with component, composite, and S-Video connectors.

[openupyoureyes]

Philips is pretty much junk, but it's cheap. It doesn't sound like you want to get anything online/mail order but rather from some place local which will probably limit your options to some degree, unless you have access to a Fry's, ABT, Tweeter, or some other large discount electronics store.

You were first asking about the RCA Rear Projection and the old CRT Rear Projection is your cheapest option for the largest size anyways (50" CRT RP same price as 32" LCD flat panel for instance). The CRT RP's are on their way out and the LCD RP's and DLP RP's are taking their place. If you want to go at least 50" LCD or DLP RP are your only option that isn't old technology like the RCA. CRT Rear Projection is decent, HD will still be very nice as long as the convergence stays in sync, but you have to worry about burn-in, the guns will get out of alignment over time and the non-HD picture on a CRT RP is noticeably worse than an LCD or DLP RP. LCD or DLP RP you dont' have burn-in issues so you can watch old 4:3 SD TV with the black bars on the sides so you don't have to stretch the image and have fat people or fishbowl the image to fill the screen and prevent burn-in. LCD/DLP RP have a bulb that needs to be replaced every 4000 hrs or couple of years (depending on how much TV you watch) and costs $200 to do that. You'll likely spend that much on service calls to re-align your CRT guns in an RP or live with convergence that just gets worse and worse over time. With a new bulb (and some last longer than that) the TV is like new again especially the DLP since there's no possibility of dead pixels over time like with an LCD RP. I personally think the DLP RP is the best, and that's why I got a Samsung DLP although it's the 720p generation not the newer 1080p generation. 1080p is ahead of it's time for the moment, so a 720p is still going to be just fine until they get to 1080p resolutions if ever. We already are having to wait 3 more years past 2006 to get to all digital broadcasts. I saw a post for one of the Samsung 50" DLP Tvs on the pedastal stand, built-in ATSC (digital/HD) tuner, awesome TV for only $1500 delivered brand new with full manufacturer warranty. If you have to buy from a store you might be able to find a scratch and dent or floor model to get the price down that low if you won't buy non-local. It used to be that you didn't want any CRT tv's from a store because they run them at 100% contrast and brightness and burn them up, no issue with the DLP or LCD RP's though so floor model other than obvious scratches or a few hundred hrs or lamp time doesn't really matter.

If you want to go as cheap as possible at 50" plus you have to go CRT like you're planning. It will suffice, but if you can afford to get up to the 1500 level I think you'll be a lot happier with what you can get. The 42" LCD RP's form Sony are really sharp/clear, and maybe you can get a Best Buy or Circuit City to match the online price for the Samsun 5087w I think the model was at tigerdirect.com

If you haven't already check out the LCDs, DLPs, and CRTs with both HD and SD (regular TV/cable) on them to compare as much as you can. You'll see the LCD/DLP are better both in HD and even more so in SD than the CRTs that's why they aren't making them anymore and all going to LCD or DLP RP (and plasma but that's another price point entirely). LCD Flat panels are nice but get pricey fast, 32" around 1K (maybe 800 for a no name online), 37" 1500 like the other posts have mentioned but it's also only a few inches thick and very cool, it's only 37" vs. 50" though in size. The DLP/LCD RPs are also only 80 lbs instead of 200+ lbs for the CRT RPs, and aren't as deep as CRT RPs either only 16" instead of 22" or more. If 37" is big enough and you like the LCD flat panel that's a great choice. If you want to go 46" or even 50" or larger, LCD or DLP RP is the way to go. Mitsubishi's are the highest priced and not worth the extra cost in my opinion, Samsungs I think are the best, Toshiba a close 2nd, and they are so much better now than they were even just over a year ago, better contrast, less ghosting on the LCDs (faster refresh rates) and they all pretty much come with built-in ATSC tuners now as well.

Hopefully this hasn't gotten so long I won't be able to post it. I initially was going to get a CRT but kept waiting and watching the prices fall and then by the time I was ready I saw the LCD/DLP RPs and new I had to get one of those instead of the CRTs. I understand if 1K is your price point then CRT RP is all you can do other than a 32" LCD flat panel. If you have to go CRT RP you might want to try to find a Toshiba or Hitachi or something other than the RCA which is just one step above Philips at the bottom. It would still be better than nothing though and better than any non-HD capable RP ever was.

Good Luck!

[cmcquistion]

Thanks for the advice. That is helpful. I didn't know that DLP didn't suffer dead pixels, like LCD's do. To be honest, that is one of my worries about buying an LCD flat panel.

I'll take a look at some of the DLP rear projection sets and see if they make it past the "finance department..."

[openupyoureyes]

Here are links for the 50" Pedastal Samsung I mentioned and a 46" also that's cheaper if that's big enough.

50" with stand built-in basically http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1648787&CatId=1830 with Free Shipping

46" without a stand and not Free Shipping so the 50" is a better deal, a really good deal actually.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1639133&CatId=1830
Maybe you can get a store to come down and get close to matching an online price so you an get a better deal.

Good Luck!

[cmcquistion]

I went and checked out the 46" Samsung at Electronic Express, nearby. It was ok, but I wasn't overly impressed. It wasn't that great for off-axis viewing and not too bright. The Toshiba set was very impressive, though, and the 37" Westinghouse LCD was crisper than either of the DLP sets, at the expense of a smaller size, of course.

[HomeyFour]

I've got the 46" Samsung, and it is amazing! The first time I watched a news broadcast (480p) my wife noticed how ugly the news casters were compared to what is masked by the noise in the SD signal! You can see all of their acne and wrinkles! My only qualms with it are that it takes a few seconds to warm up (not that big of a deal) and sometimes if I'm really tired, I can see the DLP "rainbow" effect occasionally. I'd still buy another one if my wife would let me!

[openupyoureyes]

I went and checked out the 46" Samsung at Electronic Express, nearby. It was ok, but I wasn't overly impressed. It wasn't that great for off-axis viewing and not too bright. The Toshiba set was very impressive, though, and the 37" Westinghouse LCD was crisper than either of the DLP sets, at the expense of a smaller size, of course.

Circuit City has a deal on a Hitachi 51" CRT which would be a lot better quality than the RCA for the same price $899. If you want to keep your cost at 1K you would probably be pretty happy with this set vs. the RCA CRT.

Hitachi 51" CRT Projection HDTV (51F59) 51F59A